article in korean taekwondo news

[Truescore East]

I had said that when I learned anything about who would be chosen for the Olympics I would pass on the information. this article is not a decision, but might have alot to do with who gets picked. So I figured I would pass it on.


http://taekwondo.chosun.com/
MARCH,14th 2011
최연호, 전자호구 오류로 이기고도 졌다

• 태권도조선 taekwondo.chosun.com

Choi Yeon-Ho, won but lost due to a PSS error
-“It is not the first time there is a serious error with the LaJUST PSS”


▲ Choi Yeon-Ho fighting against Park Ji-Woong.

Fin weight (-54kg) leading star Choi Yeon-Ho (KOGAS) was defeated absurdly due to a PSS error even though he actually won in the game.
Male fin weight division (-54kg) at the “Final National Qualification Tournament for the 2011 Gyongju World Taekwondo Championships” held on March 13th in Kosong, Gyeongnam.
Choi Yeon-Ho, 4 times World Champion star was fighting against rookie Park Ji-Woong (BooHeung High School) the last combat for qualifying to the National Team. If only Choi had won this fight he could have challenged the title for the 5th time.
Choi is considered the best in male fin weight, but his opponent Park was not an easy rival. The third round ended without a single point being scored in a combat full of tension. Only the sudden death overtime was left.
Then, the organizer interrupted the game. The reason was that while revising the match records, the record staff from the Competition Organizing Committee found out that in both the 1st and 2nd rounds, Choi had received one valid point each round, which had not been displayed in the electronic scoreboard.
Choi Yeon-Ho’s kicks exceeded the minimum level and on the computer record they were indicated as valid points with a “P” but they were not reflected in the scoreboard.
If the score had been reflected normally, Choi Yeon-Ho would have won 2-0 after the third round.
The competition organizer held a meeting to discuss a solution to the problem. After one hour they concluded that they would “admit the 2 valid points until the second round and repeat the rest of the fight”. Both Choi’s KOGAS and Park’s BooHeung accepted the resolution and the rematch started.
In a continued tight fight in the third round, Park succeeded in obtaining 2 points by two consecutive trunk attacks. 2-2. Eventually, they had to go to overtime after the third round. Park Ji-Woong had luck in the overtime. He succeeded in a lucky “dollyo chagi” that gave him a point, and the victory.
Even though Choi had respected the Competition Organizing Committee’s decision and accepted to repeat the last part of the game, he could not hide a sentiment of unfairness. KOGAS Park Jong-Man coach spared his words without concealing his discontent about the electronic protector.
LaJust staff said “it is the first time we encounter a problem like this one, therefore we still do not know the exact causes”, regarding the problem of the electronic protector that had caused the result to reverse.
However, in that situation it was difficult to assure whether it was the first time something like that had happened. Actually according to a person of the Korea Taekwondo Association (KTA), “After revising the data from the 47 fights held yesterday, there were many errors similar to Choi’s case”.
In reference to this, KTA’s event manager Kim Moo Cheon, said “at present we cannot make public all the problems that have arisen, but if the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) makes an official request, we can pass them all information regarding the problems of LaJUST electronic protectors, including this competition’s results”.
LaJUST, the electronic protector that has caused this problem, is expected to be used in May at the next 2011 Gyeongju World Taekwondo Championships. Furthermore, it is very likely to be used at the London Olympic Games next year, at present, since the WTF recommended LaJUST to the London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games (LOCOG).
The KTA has used LaJUST for several years and is seriously pointing out this system’s problems more than any other federation. Most of the people from the KTA Technical Committee still hold that “If LaJUST is used at the Olympic Games, serious problems can arise”.
Kosong = Taekwondo Choseon Park Seong Jin kaku616@gmail.com

 

[terryl965]

I personally do not like Lajust, simply they do not work all the time. Just at this last US Open a fighter lost due to it not registering any points but after the match they found out it was a malfunction on part of the software, kinda like you describe in the upper post. I saw Aaron Cook bend a competitor over with a roundhouse and no point went up.

But to be fair all of these EBP have problems so what can one really do but go on and do everything they can to be prepared and do there best.

 

[Gorilla]

LaJust and Daedo both have problems but I much prefer Daedo.


The San Diego qualifier was full of issues. LaJust is very inconsistent with body points. The game has become head shots, punching and Kyungo's. The Referee's have more control than before. Both of my kids matches were decided by Kyungo's(called) and head shots(not called).

In a show of great sportsmanship after my daughters loss. The other fighter apologized to her told her you won that match not me. "your head shot scored and I was surprised they did not score it. I was even more surprised when you coach protested it they did not reverse it". It is part of the game and we appreciated her honesty!


EBP's have made the game worse. To much control by the referees. When you can't count on the EBP's scoring consistently. The only way to win is head shots and kyungo's. The center ref has more power than before and head shots have always been scored inconsistently.

 

[puunui]

Not only is lajust not scoring points, but the points it is scoring is changing the game. Hard roundhouse kicks are not scored but these skimming bottom of the foot roundhouse kicks off of a cut kick is scoring, for example.

 

[Gorilla]

Not only is lajust not scoring points, but the points it is scoring is changing the game. Hard roundhouse kicks are not scored but these skimming bottom of the foot roundhouse kicks off of a cut kick is scoring, for example.

In allot of ways it is looking like a "BAD" version on Karate or tag. The NKF "Karate" is a much cleaner looking sport right now!

My kids do both I see Karate improving or at least holding level and TKD back sliding. Their love is still TKD but TKD is run much more inconsistently!!!

 

[d1jinx]

actually, we have issues with every scoring system out there.

we had problems with score cards, we had problems with the push button electronic scoring, we had problems with the joysticks electronic scoring with 1 for body, 2 for head, and now we have problems with the electronic hogus.

lets face it, we have yet to have any true perfected scoring system.

 

[dowan50]

actually, we have issues with every scoring system out there.

we had problems with score cards, we had problems with the push button electronic scoring, we had problems with the joysticks electronic scoring with 1 for body, 2 for head, and now we have problems with the electronic hogus.

lets face it, we have yet to have any true perfected scoring system.

That is why a good NGB is needed that will encourage large scale volunteer judging and refereeing education and participation. The only true score is TKO or technical TKO but that is not good for juniors even under 21?

 

[ATC]

That is why a good NGB is needed that will encourage large scale volunteer judging and refereeing education and participation.

Well I actually think that USAT does just that. One of our dojang masters is a C level USAT ref, that goes to all the training and seminars that are quite good and extensive. People are just people is the problem.

Our master told me that he reffed a match at this past NQ in SD and that it was late in the night during a match when a fighter scored a clear head shot that did not get scored by anyone. He said that there was no way they missed it but not one person scored it. The kid ended up losing the match. Afterwards he asked each judge if they saw the head shot in question and they all said yes they saw it but each had a different reason for not scoring it. One said that he thought that the time to score it had passed and that he was just to slow on the button. The other said that he just missed it also and hoped that the other two would score it and the other said he was just tired and lost focus and missed it. He stated that even if they were late that they should at least score it even if it would not score if not in sync by 1 second so that the corner could at least contest it. But when not a single person scored it can't be contested with any validation.

People are just people. They will always make mistakes.

 

[terryl965]

ATC you are rightpeople are people but the problem is when you are a ref. that kinds of throws that away. The competitors that have trained for the competition should deserve refs. that are focus and ready to do there job. They made a choose to ref and gave a oarth for fair play, but when they say things like I was hoping that the other two scored it is plain wrong. I believe no matter what if they paid the refs more money we would have better refs, but when you get $100 for all day which is sometimes 12-16 hours and does not make them really try.

 

[andyjeffries]

actually, we have issues with every scoring system out there.

we had problems with score cards, we had problems with the push button electronic scoring, we had problems with the joysticks electronic scoring with 1 for body, 2 for head, and now we have problems with the electronic hogus.

lets face it, we have yet to have any true perfected scoring system.

Hear hear!

We also had problems with biased judging/refereeing.

Maybe the only real solution is computer analysis of body mechanics (ala Microsoft Kinect). They can tell the speed of the kicks therefore the likely impact power. They can tell where the foot landed. They can react faster than humans (or do instant replays during the few seconds after a kick). They can automatically asses penalties for low blows, etc.

A bit Terminator for some people, but I wonder if this is the future...

 

[BoA36]

Actually it is only $50 for all day, plus referees pay their own expenses to and from the event, so we are all volunteers. Nobody makes a nickel unless they happen to live within driving distance of the venue. On Saturday we started with a meeting at 8:00 am, began competition at 9:00 am and went until 12:45 or 1:00 am the next morning. While I guarantee all the refs are doing the best job they possibly can, that kind of schedule insures a higher probability of errors after 12 hours or more of being in the chair.

I have to add that I was really impressed with the capabilities of many new referees. Clearly California is doing a great job of getting them started.

 

[puunui]

People are just people. They will always make mistakes.

But it seems to me that there are more mistakes made in Taekwondo matches. Or at least there is much more protesting and complaining about officiating in Taekwondo matches. For example, I watch gymnastics or boxing and without understanding the intricate details of the rules, I can intuitively pick the winner and generally agree with the referees' decisions 99% of the time. In Taekwondo, I watch matches and I like to think that I understand the rules better than in gymnastics or boxing, but I find that I wrong in picking the winner more often in a Taekwondo match. When I try to express that, with coaches, referees, athletes or even spectators, a lot of times we get into an overly technical detailed analysis based on interpretations of rules that change every year. I feel like it shouldn't be like that, that instead, anyone should be able to watch a match and determine who the winner is, intuitively. That is what we need in Taekwondo, not constant rule changes, overly complicated subjective interpretations or non-functioning fundamentally flawed electronic scoring.