Army Reservist arrested after detaining illegal immigrants

[ginshun]

Here is the story




Arrested Army Reservist Says He's a Victim

[size=-1]By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer[/size]

PHOENIX - [size=-1] An Army reservist arrested on charges that he detained seven Mexicans at gunpoint in southwestern Arizona said Wednesday he is a victim, not a vigilante. [/size]

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[size=-1] Sgt. Patrick Haab, 24, was being held on seven counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. He said he drew a revolver to stop some of the men — later determined to be illegal immigrants — from rushing him Sunday night at a highway rest stop. [/size]

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[size=-1] "I believe I'm a victim," said Haab, who spent 11 months in Iraq but declined to discuss his duties there. He said he takes medication for combat stress. [/size]

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[size=-1] "This could have been a very serious confrontation," Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said. Haab broke the law by taking it into his own hands and his claim of being a victim "doesn't pan out," he said. [/size]

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[size=-1] The incident occurred at Sentinel about 260 miles from the southeastern Arizona border where civilian efforts to watch for illegal immigrants has stirred worries of vigilante violence. [/size]

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[size=-1] Haab said he is not a member of the Minuteman Project and said he knew little of its mission. Haab insisted he was not attempting to round up people resembling illegal immigrants. [/size]

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[size=-1] At one point he had the seven men climb out of a vehicle one-by-one and lie on the sidewalk. [/size]

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[size=-1] "I never used force on them, I never threatened them, I never cocked the hammer," said Haab, who is assigned to the 415th Civil Affairs Battalion from Kalamazoo, Mich. He said he acted in self-defense, thinking the men were going to tackle him. [/size]

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[size=-1] Haab said either the Border Patrol or sheriff's deputies told him by phone to let the men go. The seven were later taken into custody. [/size]

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So what do you guys think, victim or vigilante?

I am not sure that I buy the guys story of the people ruching him, but I am not sure that he should be arrested for doing the governments job for them either.

 

[OUMoose]

There seems to be alot of detail missing here. What was initiating factors to this incident? Why did the guy feel it necessary to draw down on the other men (a.k.a. were they armed or actually advancing in a threatening manner)?

 

[Tgace]

As first glance...kneejerk reaction to the whole "minuteman project". The border patrol doesnt like it and the locals probably dont like it. While this guy may have not been a member (and I agree a lot of this story is missing), I think that many people have been waiting for a chance to make an example out of a case like this......

 

[michaeledward]

Here is an interesting paragraph ....

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0414detain14.html

When the immigrants saw his gun, Patrick said, they walked toward the Suburban and climbed inside. Explaining that he was still concerned for his safety, Patrick followed the men to the vehicle and, with the gun aimed at them, took the car keys away from them. He said he then called 911 and asked the dispatcher whether he should order the men out of the vehicle.

 

[ginshun]

I heard the 911 call on the radio yesterday. After he asked whether or not he should take them out of the car, she told him that she wasn't an officer and that she didn't know.

I am not sure what to think of this one really. I do think that it (and the Minutemen) show that at least a portion of the people in this country are getting pretty sick of the government carring more about Iraq or where ever than they are about protecting our own borders. Personally I tend to agree.

Take half the soldiers in Iraq and post them on the border between us an Mexico, and they would be doing 50x's as much good in the "war on terror".

Thats just my opinion though, obviously our government doesn't agree.

 

[Tgace]

I heard the 911 call on the radio yesterday. After he asked whether or not he should take them out of the car, she told him that she wasn't an officer and that she didn't know.

Well thats a lame excuse from a 911 dispatcher...I admittedly am not 100% familiar with immigration law and its status as a "crime". I typically call border patrol/immigration and take guidance from them. These guys running from a police officer is different from ignoring a civilian though. If they were committing a "crime" and somehow this guy knew it (there is an issue... how did this guy "know" that these people were in fact, "illegal"), I suppose some "citizen arrest" issues could arise. As its been said prevoiusly, not a lot of details as to the reason this guy thought he needed to get involved.

 

[kempo-vjj]

The US Army post patrol out there. From what I know it is mainly as a deterant for illegals. They are never to engage or fire unless provoked. I think. Which isnt unusual. But was he on duty? Just currently living there and tired of the illegal traffic? yes, missing info. But media always leaves that out the most important parts it seems.

 

[ginshun]

I heard an interview with him yesterday. He said that he was at the rest stop to let his dog out to go to the bathroom. He was out in a field type area when the six or seven people approched him in an apperently menacing fashion. He says that the dog got between him and the individuals in protection of him, at which time he pulled out his gun (which he has a valid permit for) and they took off towards their car. He followed them to the car intending to make a citizens arrest for them threatening him. He didn't know for sure if they were illegals, but assumed they were considering the area and that they were all speaking Spanish. When he followed them they returned to their car. This is when he made the 911 call and held them there until border patrol arrived 45 minutes later. At the same time Sherriff Joe Arpaio arrived and arrested him.

That is his story anyway, take it for what you will.

 

[Cryozombie]

Well, I dont know what the law down there on the border is, but...

The first part if illegal alien that everyone seems to forget is the "Illegal" part... (I wont go into a lengthy dissertation about that...)

They came here, ya know... ILLEGALLY.

Supposing he knew that they were illegal, he was then aware of a crime... what happened to Citizens Arrest?

:idunno:

As was pointed out above, he claimed NOT to know that, but I wonder if that claim was made in defense after him being busted for "detaining illegals"

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, maybe he was threatened and had a perfect right to defend himself--but he FOLLOWED them? six or seven people? based on the claim that they were all speaking Spanish?

Uh....I doubt that a cop would be allowed to do this...and I heard this guy announce that he has a website?

Is this gonna be like the guy who was on the news last week announcing that he was raising money to bring "Star Trek," back, and this week it turns out he's got a criminal record as a con artist?

 

[jdmills]

Well, I dont know what the law down there on the border is, but...

The first part if illegal alien that everyone seems to forget is the "Illegal" part... (I wont go into a lengthy dissertation about that...)

They came here, ya know... ILLEGALLY.

Supposing he knew that they were illegal, he was then aware of a crime... what happened to Citizens Arrest?

:idunno:

As was pointed out above, he claimed NOT to know that, but I wonder if that claim was made in defense after him being busted for "detaining illegals"

An "illegal alien" may be present illegally in the US (in that he entered without inspection, did not leave when the visa expired or is not working for the company that sponsored his work visa). It is a violation of IMMIGRATION LAW and this violation is NOT CRIMINAL. There are some violations of immigration law that are criminal but they just because someone is an "illegal alien" does not make the person guilty of a crime.

 

[ginshun]

The guy said in the interview that the people who he held for the border patrol are still being held in Yuma. The driver of the vehical is being charged with smuggleing people in, which is apperently a felony. The rest are just being charged with coming into the country illegally, which is a misdemeanor.

 

[raedyn]

He says he didn't threaten them. Bull****. He pointed a gun at them. If you pointed a gun at me, I'd take it as a threat, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Cryozombie]

An "illegal alien" may be present illegally in the US (in that he entered without inspection, did not leave when the visa expired or is not working for the company that sponsored his work visa). It is a violation of IMMIGRATION LAW and this violation is NOT CRIMINAL. There are some violations of immigration law that are criminal but they just because someone is an "illegal alien" does not make the person guilty of a crime.

Yeah well, Violation of a Law, be it Speeding, Border Jumping, or Homicide, are all violations of the Law, therefore Illegal... each has different ramifications is all.

I am less than tolerant of Illegal Immagrants than many people, for personal reasons... It's NOT a race issue, BTW, I dont care where they came from...

I do think, we need to make the immigration laws better. Less tolerance for the folks who come here illegally, while making the process easier for the ones who come legaly.

I think that America should open its arms to immigrants... I think its good that people immigrate here, and have the option to do so...

However

I disagree with folks making their first action in doing so to break our laws.

 

[Ceicei]

All charges against the Army Reserve sergeant have been dropped. See article below:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43922

- Ceicei

 

[Tgace]

Like I thought it would fall out...............

 

[rmcrobertson]

I cannot tell you how much I kvelled when I read that this guy is in the Army's 415th Civil Affairs Battalion.

 

[Tgace]

Do you have any clue what a CA soldiers duties are?

 

[rmcrobertson]

No; enlighten me. I'd assumed it was pretty much as per the Army Dictionary page:

"Civil affairs unit: *
A military unit organized to perform the civil affairs activities of a commander."

That is, the same job that Richard Milhous Nixon had--public relations. Unlike, say, John Kennedy, George McGovern, John Kerry, and Jimmy Carter.

But then too, I feel sure that the DA who decided he'd acted appropriately had no PR in mind.

But seriously, folks, what is this particular MOS? Please explain. Hell, I dunno.

 

[Tgace]

http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=193

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2003/Feb/Pentagon_Broadens.htm