Are you training in a McDojo?

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah. But that is the worst recommendation for somewhere that is technically teaching a skill.

I learned nothing but had fun is not seen as a positive review in education circles.

It depends what you're there for. If I join a school to have fun and get some activity, then as long as I'm learning something (meaning I can now do a different technique, form, etc.), I'll be happy with it. And it's doing what I need from it, so if it's not providing a fighting skill (maybe I'm just getting good at forms), that's not a factor.

Of course, if I go to a school to learn fighting skill, it should teach fighting skill. But I'd also require that I have some fun with it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Jae Kims, Boston. That brought back some memories. He's been there a long time, over forty years anyway. Always loved that dojo, Old School TKD.

As for you, Xue, as a parent of a kid in my school, I think you would have loved it. Everybody knew when they joined that EVERYONE was going to flunk a test at one point or another - even if you deserved to pass. And when a test came everyone took the test, even if it was just for practice. It was always one of the hardest nights of the year, and by far the most fun.

And, man, did I used to mess with them. Sometimes, in mid test when everyone was drenched in sweat, I'd have them in a ready stance and say "If you honestly believe you deserve to be promoted, please take one step forward."

There was usually a seconds hesitation as I'm sure things were going through their mind. Then some would step forward and some would take the humble approach. And I'd say "Anyone who did not step forward please bow out and leave the dojo immediately, thanks for trying, see you tomorrow."

Usually, the ones that stepped forward were the very best students. And they flunked. But hey, we practiced what we preached, which was - if you are interested in belts this is NOT the dojo for you.

But perhaps my fondest memory of teaching was the first time I tested a group for Black Belt. This was unprecedented for me, I had never had more than one student ready for Shodan, suddenly I had six.

So, the test was to commence at 5 A.M just to bust their balls, be there at 4:30 to warm up. They warmed up on their own. I bowed them in and the first thing was they were to jump up and grab the overhead ladder we used for chin ups. I told them to stay there hanging for as long as they could. That the first one to let go flunked and was to change and leave.

I went over to the corner, sat down and read the newspaper. I figured they would be there for a while. And they were. But there were murmurs going on amongst them, which was allowed. I figured they were encouraging each other. They were not. They were plotting.

After whatever amount of time had passed, one of them signalled and they all let go together, bowed out respectfully and left as a group.

Man, that was awesome. They stuck together. Took my breadth away. I passed them all.

Why you evil. maniacal ...... yeah, I knew I liked you

I started with Mr Kim in his Worcester school, when that closed and I had a license, I showed up in Boston, wish I has showed up more.

 

[Buka]

Why you evil. maniacal ...... yeah, I knew I liked you

I started with Mr Kim in his Worcester school, when that closed and I had a license, I showed up in Boston, wish I has showed up more.

He was a very nice man, a class act. As was one of his assistants at the time, Mike O'Malley. Was Mike there when you trained there?

 

[Xue Sheng]

He was a very nice man, a class act. As was one of his assistants at the time, Mike O'Malley. Was Mike there when you trained there?

Mike did a lot of teaching in Worcester. I will have to tell you the story of Mike, Mr Kim, and heavy bags someday

 

[Rabbitthekitten]

I like to look at different schools in my area and try them out. Even if I don't stay with them. I always see if there is something new to learn.

Three things that start the alarm bells ringing for me in my limited experience of martial arts, in my city are;

1. Contracts. Seems to be more about turning a profit than turning out good martial artists. I know this isn't always the case but the majority of schools here are pays you train or a few charge a monthly fee with no contract.

2. The owner's name in the name of the school. We have a number of these in my city and they all have a terrible reputation for teaching crap. One had a photo on their website of a 12 year old black belt with her thumb tucked under her fingers when punching. When challenged about this they threatened to beat up the person questioning the technique.

3. Forbidding students to go to other schools. Why would you do this? Afraid they'll come across the real deal? Seems a bit suspect to me.

There's one school in my area guilty of all three.

 

[CB Jones]

The owner's name in the name of the school.

Ok this made me curious.....what or how should someone name their school then?

 

[Rabbitthekitten]

Ok this made me curious.....what or how should someone name their school then?

Anything they like. But in my admittidly limited experience, schools where the owners do this, it's more about the owner than the student.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Anything they like. But in my admittidly limited experience, schools where the owners do this, it's more about the owner than the student.

All of the instances I can think of, none of them fit that description. For most, it's like naming any other business - many use their names, because they can't think of another business name they seem to like better, and it's not worth the effort (or cost) to come up with something more marketable. And given the owner's often the main face of the dojo (and the person most new folks want to meet), it makes some sense in the somewhat traditional schools.

 

[Rabbitthekitten]

All of the instances I can think of, none of them fit that description. For most, it's like naming any other business - many use their names, because they can't think of another business name they seem to like better, and it's not worth the effort (or cost) to come up with something more marketable. And given the owner's often the main face of the dojo (and the person most new folks want to meet), it makes some sense in the somewhat traditional schools.

Alarm bells start ringing when you have some fantastic schools with fantastic teachers who are doing it for the love of the art rather than to make some cash. Best schools in the city Leicester Karate Club, Leicester Taekwon-do Academy, Aylstone Judo Club, Kyu Shin Kan Aikido. They have some fine, experienced teachers. They've been around for years despite not making any money and will be for many years to come.

At the other end of the scale. If you're charging £65 a month and you have black belt's who can't even punch properly, whilst promoting yourself all over social media and then you threaten to beat up people who think you might not be the best school in the area. It's just not the kind of school I'd want to go too.

The best schools are not for profit clubs without massaging someones ego. The suspect ones ones are about how great and tough the owner is and sticking your name right in the centre of it just, for me proves it.

It's just my experience of my area. It may be different elsewhere.

 

[CB Jones]

At the other end of the scale. If you're charging £65 a month and you have black belt's who can't even punch properly, whilst promoting yourself all over social media and then you threaten to beat up people who think you might not be the best school in the area. It's just not the kind of school I'd want to go too.

The best schools are not for profit clubs without massaging someones ego. The suspect ones ones are about how great and tough the owner is and sticking your name right in the centre of it just, for me proves it.

It's just my experience of my area. It may be different elsewhere.

Sounds like that is anecdotal or a regional thing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Alarm bells start ringing when you have some fantastic schools with fantastic teachers who are doing it for the love of the art rather than to make some cash. Best schools in the city Leicester Karate Club, Leicester Taekwon-do Academy, Aylstone Judo Club, Kyu Shin Kan Aikido. They have some fine, experienced teachers. They've been around for years despite not making any money and will be for many years to come.

At the other end of the scale. If you're charging £65 a month and you have black belt's who can't even punch properly, whilst promoting yourself all over social media and then you threaten to beat up people who think you might not be the best school in the area. It's just not the kind of school I'd want to go too.

The best schools are not for profit clubs without massaging someones ego. The suspect ones ones are about how great and tough the owner is and sticking your name right in the centre of it just, for me proves it.

It's just my experience of my area. It may be different elsewhere.

I suspect some of this is cultural (more for-profit schools in the US, and many are quite good) and some is just a matter of chance. Or maybe it's all cultural, now that I think about it. Using one's own name in a business name is quite common in the US. Is it less common there?

 

[hoshin1600]

@Xue Sheng & @Buka
Such a small world. The TKD stuff I did was from a guy named Bill that trained with those guys. Bill could tear the metal S hooks on the heavy bag and drop the bag to the floor at will.

Xue was that school on rt 9? Kim's black belt Academy I almost signed up there,back in the day.
Last I looked Mike is still teaching in boston.

 

[Rabbitthekitten]

I suspect some of this is cultural (more for-profit schools in the US, and many are quite good) and some is just a matter of chance. Or maybe it's all cultural, now that I think about it. Using one's own name in a business name is quite common in the US. Is it less common there?

Possibly you're right. Maybe it's just my area. Own names in businesses isn't that uncommon. I guess it depends on the business, legal firms or small construction firms almost always. Others maybe not so common, but not unheard of.

I think I should be more open minded.

 

[dvcochran]

Anything they like. But in my admittidly limited experience, schools where the owners do this, it's more about the owner than the student.

If five schools in close proximity to each other all teach isshinryu they need some way to differentiate themselves, hence the addition of a name.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Possibly you're right. Maybe it's just my area. Own names in businesses isn't that uncommon. I guess it depends on the business, legal firms or small construction firms almost always. Others maybe not so common, but not unheard of.

I think I should be more open minded.

This is a situation where confirmation bias is easy to come by. If I run into three bad schools (much worse than what I've seen in the area) and they all have the word "Academy" in them, my brain's going to take that as a bad sign. Our brains love to find patterns, and are so good they sometimes find patterns that aren't really significant.

Of course, it could be the other way around (which was the thought in my post you replied to): it may be that naming a MA program by the person's name is uncommon enough in your area that doing so would actually be a sign of egotism. Hard to say one way or the other.

 

[Rabbitthekitten]

This is a situation where confirmation bias is easy to come by. If I run into three bad schools (much worse than what I've seen in the area) and they all have the word "Academy" in them, my brain's going to take that as a bad sign. Our brains love to find patterns, and are so good they sometimes find patterns that aren't really significant.

Of course, it could be the other way around (which was the thought in my post you replied to): it may be that naming a MA program by the person's name is uncommon enough in your area that doing so would actually be a sign of egotism. Hard to say one way or the other.

I did a course at uni on scientific scepticism and a whole lecture was on confirmation bias. I think you nailed it.

 

[drop bear]

Sounds like that is anecdotal or a regional thing.

Interestingly not many schools do it. Even if they are run by known fighters.

 

[CB Jones]

Interestingly not many schools do it. Even if they are run by known fighters.

They are in the U.S..

And to clarify...I'm not about talking about pro gyms....but just basic small MA schools.

 

[Buka]

This is a situation where confirmation bias is easy to come by. If I run into three bad schools (much worse than what I've seen in the area) and they all have the word "Academy" in them, my brain's going to take that as a bad sign. Our brains love to find patterns, and are so good they sometimes find patterns that aren't really significant.

I first trained in an Academy, and it was pretty cool. Many years later my dojo had a very large sign that greeted all that entered.

This is a Martial Arts Institute of Higher Pugilistic Education.
Please keep your hands up.

 

[Xue Sheng]

@Xue Sheng & @Buka
Such a small world. The TKD stuff I did was from a guy named Bill that trained with those guys. Bill could tear the metal S hooks on the heavy bag and drop the bag to the floor at will.

Xue was that school on rt 9? Kim's black belt Academy I almost signed up there,back in the day.
Last I looked Mike is still teaching in boston.

No, the Worcester school was in downtown, I think it may have been on Main street in Worcester back then, There was a theater across the street and way back then the Worcester Galleria was still open and running full tilt and full of stores. Mr Kim's school was on the second floor down on main street, roughly (I think), where South-bridge street goes off main. Then he closed the Worcester school and was only in Boston at that time, I believe. His school in Boston was also on the second floor but it was not on route 9 either, can't remember what street it was on. It seems to me if you turned off route 9 and drove past his school you'd end up on Beacon, but that was years ago and I could be wrong about that one.
This is all in the mid to late 70s