Are you an "Inclusivist" or "Exclusivist" in your view of WC?

[guy b.]

And see, this is exactly what I was talking about! They ARE facts. They exist! White Crane and Wing Chun do in fact have very similar origin stories, etc. To say that these are not facts is to "dismiss them out of hand." Guy has just proven my point. Case closed. Now shut up and move on!

Again this is a dishonest misrepresentation of the argument

Nobody is denying that origin stories exist or that similarities between these stories exist. You appear to be trying to conflate the fact that stories exist with the "fact" that they are true.

Mythical origin stories do exist. But they were added in the 20th C. Any similarities are therefore irrelevant in terms of the origins of wing chun. See Judkins for details.

 

[KPM]

Again this is a dishonest misrepresentation of the argument

Nobody is denying that origin stories exist or that similarities between these stories exist. You appear to be trying to conflate the fact that stories exist with the "fact" that they are true.
.

Now YOU are the one being dishonest! You said this just a few posts ago in this very thread!

guy b. said: ↑
The arguments presented in these statements are not facts. The only fact is that such statements have been made by you and sometimes other people

All I ever said was that it is a fact that these things exist. Anyone is free to believe that they suggest a relationship or not. How many times now have I said that? Now shut up and move on!

 

[LFJ]

You appear to be trying to conflate the fact that stories exist with the "fact" that they are true.

More like the "fact" that they are "evidence" for the theory, when really they are just evidence of the theory.

I don't agree they are admissible as evidence for the theory. Just like young earth stories aren't grounds for justified belief that the Earth is only 6k years old.

 

[geezer]

Old argument, people. Learn to accept that people will see things differently and move on.

 

[guy b.]

All I ever said was that it is a fact that these things exist. Anyone is free to believe that they suggest a relationship or not. How many times now have I said that?

I agree that origin stories exist and are easily discounted as evidence for any similarity between white crane and wing chun.

 

[geezer]

I agree that origin stories exist and are easily discounted as evidence for any similarity between white crane and wing chun.

Off topic.

 

[geezer]

As a side note, since the topic of "origin stories" and legendary histories popped up again, a lot of the folklore associated with kung-fu styles was created or adopted to back up "exclusivist" claims of stylistic superiority. Basically early attempts at branding and marketing, something that is increasingly widespread in modern times in WC. How many sifus have claimed to have the "authentic", or the "final", or the "most effective" WC/VT? Probably most try to play that game.

 

[guy b.]

Off topic.

What is the topic?

 

[wckf92]

What is the topic?

See post #1

 

[geezer]

What is the topic?

Precisely my point! Scroll up to the top of the page and read the thread title please.

 

[wtxs]

As a side note, since the topic of "origin stories" and legendary histories popped up again, a lot of the folklore associated with kung-fu styles was created or adopted to back up "exclusivist" claims of stylistic superiority. Basically early attempts at branding and marketing, something that is increasingly widespread in modern times in WC. How many sifus have claimed to have the "authentic", or the "final", or the "most effective" WC/VT? Probably most try to play that game.

IMO my WC way is most effective, so are you suggesting that I a liar? I will not upload an video for all to see, cus it will leave evidence of the hidden deadly techniques of my lineage.

 

[Vajramusti]

IMO my WC way is most effective, so are you suggesting that I a liar? I will not upload an video for all to see, cus it will leave evidence of the hidden deadly techniques of my lineage.

--------------------------------------------------

VBG. Some secrets should be kept.

 

[guy b.]

--------------------------------------------------

VBG. Some secrets should be kept.

Yes, some need to be kept until trust is established

 

[dudewingchun]

Everyone knows its Emei 12 zhuang and Yong Chun White crane !

 

[Vajramusti]

Yes, some need to be kept until trust is established

------------------------------------------
???!!!!!
I was just joking with a different poster

 

[guy b.]

I

------------------------------------------
???!!!!!
I was just joking with a different poster

I am serious. There are things I would not say here, especially given entrenched antipathy which has developed among some people.

Odd that you say you were joking, given actions

 

[geezer]

....especially given entrenched antipathy...

Got to hand it to you, Guy. You do express yourself well with the written word. Now if only we could do something about that ...er... mutual antipathy that sometimes erupts between you and LFJ on one side and some of the rest of us on the other... we could really have some great discussions.

I know, for a start, never say anything to KPM and, hopefully he will respond in kind!

 

[guy b.]

Got to hand it to you, Guy. You do express yourself well with the written word. Now if only we could do something about that ...er... mutual antipathy that sometimes erupts between you and LFJ on one side and some of the rest of us on the other... we could really have some great discussions.

Thanks. You express yourself well too

I know, for a start, never say anything to KPM and, hopefully he will respond in kind!

Sorry, too late.