Are Standing Arm Break Unsportsmanlike in MMA?

[pdg]

Yeah, I expect it’s all the same except the hand used. I’m very right hand dominant, and I’ve been driving a stick shift for over 30 years. The muscle memory is pretty well ingrained. Thanks for the insight!

You might be surprised how easily the muscle memory is able to switch sides.

First time I drove LHD was on holiday, after 12+ years of exclusively RHD on the left of the road.

I only tried to open the drivers door twice when going for the gearstick

 

[Dirty Dog]

The action of changing gear is no more or less complex or difficult with either hand.

True. When we're in the UK, I like to rent cars from Bespokes since airport rental cars are icky. They've got a couple '69 E body Jaguars that I love, plus a few older Porsche 911's. All manual. They meet us at Heathrow and by the time I get out of the parking lot, I've gotten reasonably comfortable shifting with the left hand.

 

[jobo]

Really? You want to argue medicine with me?

Certainly explain how you drive w with one arm in a sling ?

 

[Anarax]

That's not the issue the issue is the fighters shouldn't be throwing those extra shots at all. When you knock a guy out you know he's out.

I don't disagree, but there is a varying degree of when it's appropriate/ inappropriate as well as a grey area to follow-up with additional shots. If the guys is out cold then I think additional shots are uncalled for. If the fighter is knocked down but still conscious and is trying to get back up then additional shots are justified. However, there are those grey areas where it's very difficult to judge.

Look at mark hunt he never follows up.

Yeah, but that's more of a personal preference.

I believe if you ko a guy and continue to punch you should be disqualified because that's what turns it from a sport into a thugs game

I don't disagree, but my point was the ref is there to protect the fighters when they can't do so themselves(KO, TKO, choked out, etc) and make sure the rules are enforced.

The other shots can as you say cause those injuries but they aren't deliberately targeted to do that unlike the arm break.

A professional fighter striking with full force to their opponent's face, nose, jaw and liver is trying to inflict enough trauma to cause their body to fail so they can win the fight. The striker doesn't look surprised when their opponent's nose spurts out blood nor when they KO their opponent. Why? Because the intention to inflict injury is present.

ou don't punch someone in the head and think, 'there, that will give him concussion' or elbow him in the stomach thinking that should rupture an organ or two, lets see how much damage I can really inflict in this competition.

Striking areas like the nose, jaw and liver are targets for a reason. They're striking those areas to trigger a physical response from their opponent like a KO or shock. The intent to injure is still there.

 

[Anarax]

I don’t think a legal technique is unsportsmanlike, and the easy way to avoid a broken arm is to defend it correctly or submit.

It was legal at the time of the video, I believe some MMA organizations have made it illegal afterwards though.

If the opponent is given the chance to defend or submit, the OP said he wasn't, it was a deliberate move intended to break the arm so going on that it was unsportsmanlike.

Some submissions offer more control over their opponent's than others. The technique he did(Waki Gatame) offers very little to no control, especially against a pro fighter that knows grappling. In the video his opponent didn't appear to be familiar with that particular technique, for he didn't try and prevent the set up. He thought he was safe, hence is why he was striking Aoki in the face opposed trying to get his arm free or countering.

 

[Anarax]

That guys the biggest scumbag in the whole sport

I agree, but continuing a submission after the opponent has tapped is totally different than what Aoki did.

 

[paitingman]

I don't disagree, but there is a varying degree of when it's appropriate/ inappropriate as well as a grey area to follow-up with additional shots. If the guys is out cold then I think additional shots are uncalled for. If the fighter is knocked down but still conscious and is trying to get back up then additional shots are justified. However, there are those grey areas where it's very difficult to judge.


Yeah, but that's more of a personal preference.


I don't disagree, but my point was the ref is there to protect the fighters when they can't do so themselves(KO, TKO, choked out, etc) and make sure the rules are enforced.


A professional fighter striking with full force to their opponent's face, nose, jaw and liver is trying to inflict enough trauma to cause their body to fail so they can win the fight. The striker doesn't look surprised when their opponent's nose spurts out blood nor when they KO their opponent. Why? Because the intention to inflict injury is present.


Striking areas like the nose, jaw and liver are targets for a reason. They're striking those areas to trigger a physical response from their opponent like a KO or shock. The intent to injure is still there.

I have a similar view.

There are lots of practitioners who throw strikes to the face and head carefully and lots who apply joint locks with care.

In competition, there are those that are trying to put you out and kick you in the skull full force and those who will snap your arm.

I think the stigma of broken limbs and the like is hard to let go of. People seem to have numbed a bit to head trauma, but that too is rising again, rightly so.

 

[paitingman]

Or maybe the stigma with strikes has just been worn down and accepted for centuries. All the joint locks and less known and accepted techniques still jarring to a lot of people.

1890:
"Hey, he just punched that guy in the face!"
"Yeah. It's a fight."
2010:
"Hey, he just kneed that guy in the face!"
"Yeah. It's a fight!"
2018:
"Hey, he just kicked that guy in the knee!"
"WTF? d!ck move."

 

[Headhunter]

I agree, but continuing a submission after the opponent has tapped is totally different than what Aoki did.

Intentionally hurting an opponent that's what both do

 

[Tez3]

Some submissions offer more control over their opponent's than others. The technique he did(Waki Gatame) offers very little to no control, especially against a pro fighter that knows grappling. In the video his opponent didn't appear to be familiar with that particular technique, for he didn't try and prevent the set up. He thought he was safe, hence is why he was striking Aoki in the face opposed trying to get his arm free or countering.

You know your assumption that I know nothing about MMA is wearing a bit thin now. You are also assuming you know what was in the fighter's mind at the time.

 

[Headhunter]

Or maybe the stigma with strikes has just been worn down and accepted for centuries. All the joint locks and less known and accepted techniques still jarring to a lot of people.

1890:
"Hey, he just punched that guy in the face!"
"Yeah. It's a fight."
2010:
"Hey, he just kneed that guy in the face!"
"Yeah. It's a fight!"
2018:
"Hey, he just kicked that guy in the knee!"
"WTF? d!ck move."

Um leg kicks have been in martial arts since the very beginning. Also you're missing the point completely

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I was reviewing some of the unorthodox techniques in MMA and Waki Gatame(the first lock I was taught) caught my eye. Shinya Aoki applied it beautifully in the video below. I of course had to read the YouTube comments and some were saying the break was unsportsmanlike.

I can see part of their point given it's a break and is done so quickly it doesn't give his opponent enough time to tap. However; the Waki Gatame is a difficult technique to control your opponent with especially in a pro MMA bout, thus it must be done more explosively to be effective. When you opponent is trying to beat you unconscious is the arm-break that inappropriate or unsportsmanlike? Understand I'm referring to MMA bouts not grappling competitions.

Standing Arm-breaks Yea or Nay? Why or why not?

I'm not fond of any technique in competition (as opposed to actual defensive use) that can't be effective without causing significant injury. Standing arm bars are among those. I've brought this up before in other threads - these can be useful in self-defense, but are dick moves in competition. Taking things like this out of training is better for competition, but arguably not good for self-defense training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I see your point, but those two scenarios aren't the same thing. Aoki's opponent wasn't neutralized and he was taking punches to the face until he broke his arm. If the opponent is out cold on the canvas and the striker continues beating him he's doing more damage after his opponent is neutralized.

Aoki chose a technique that gave him no option but to break the arm, in my opinion. That's actually just as bad as the person who doesn't have the control to stop when his opponent is unconscious. Both might be chalked up to an adrenaline overdose in the heat of competition, or might be dick moves.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If I break an arm it's unsportsmanlike, but if I break a nose or shatter a jaw or cause a spleen to rupture it's a good punch?

The difference is the choice. That technique doesn't have a good alternative to a break. A punch can have worse effects than intended, but that spleen rupture isn't the primary effect.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I’ll have to give a righthand drive a go sometime. Not sure how difficult it would be to shift with my left hand.

When injured, I've shifted a left-hand drive car with my left hand. It was a bit awkward, but not awful. Putting the shift on that side would make it fairly easy, I'd think.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

OK, I'll rephrase. If you can't drive with one arm in a cast[...]
The implication through the entire post is that having a broken arm does not, except in a few cases, mean you cannot use it.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough for you.

A broken elbow would likely make it more difficult. I've never had one, but the cast would be well past the elbow, wouldn't it?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You might be surprised how easily the muscle memory is able to switch sides.

First time I drove LHD was on holiday, after 12+ years of exclusively RHD on the left of the road.

I only tried to open the drivers door twice when going for the gearstick

My best story of this was the first time I drove a stick-shift car after driving a (manual gearshift) motorcycle as my primary transport for more than a year. I kept noticing the turn signal was on. Apparently, my left hand (clutch hand on motorcycle) needed something to do when shifting gears.

 

[Anarax]

I think the stigma of broken limbs and the like is hard to let go of. People seem to have numbed a bit to head trauma, but that too is rising again, rightly so.

I think the appearance of an arm breaking is more violent than a KO or a full contact liver shot. You see the damage being inflicted to the limb opposed to the subcutaneous damage of power shots to the vulnerable areas.

Intentionally hurting an opponent that's what both do

That's what all pro fighters do. Power shots are meant to hurt and inflict damage.

You know your assumption that I know nothing about MMA is wearing a bit thin now. You are also assuming you know what was in the fighter's mind at the time.

Explaining the dynamics of the submission has nothing to do with what I think your MMA comprehension is. It's simply explaining the dynamics to convey my point. There's nothing in the video showing his opponent knew it was coming nor defended it in anyway.

 

[pdg]

My best story of this was the first time I drove a stick-shift car after driving a (manual gearshift) motorcycle as my primary transport for more than a year. I kept noticing the turn signal was on. Apparently, my left hand (clutch hand on motorcycle) needed something to do when shifting gears.

Oddly, never had the slightest issue switching from bike to car.

Even with a suicide shift (bike, left foot clutch, left hand shift).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Oddly, never had the slightest issue switching from bike to car.

Even with a suicide shift (bike, left foot clutch, left hand shift).

When I was driving both, never a problem. It was just after a year of not driving a car, then borrowing one.