Anyone ever met someone who only trains forms and basics?

[Rich Parsons]

I'm curious if anyone ever sparred or saw someone spar who only trained forms and basics(like kihon and 1 steps) . I know to be a fighter you need to fight to get better, but I've seen schools where they only train forms, kihon basics(punches, kicks, blocks etc) and 1 steps but not free sparring. How proficient could someone get from a routine like that? I'm just curious. Thanks.

Anyone ever met someone who only trains forms and basics?​

I saw your thread title, and wanted to answer the question.
Yes, I have trained only basics for my complete martial art career. (37+ Years)
Forms to an extent, and also shadow striking and imaginary enemy movement.
.
Example: A student trained with us for about a year. They got a Low-mid color belt.
They left and trained for 6 months and got a blackbelt from a cousin art (Different lineage same culture or origin)
.
I saw them 5+_years later and they had a second degree in a Judo.
The asked me in the locker room before the seminar what I was doing. I told same art same location.
They laughed and said you must be a slow learner. I mastered everything you and the rest of that club had to offer, and moved on.
I have gotten three or four Black Belts since then in multiple arts.
What are you studying to keep you there?
.
My reply was: Well as a slow learner, I train and teach the basics. We practice the basics.
Later a person who had overheard the conversation, asked after the seminar, what I called basics as I obviously knew more about joint locks then many that were there at the seminar.
I replied, it is all the basics. As one improves so does ones basics. And if one keeps practicing those basics and getting better then one is still learning.
.
Now yes, from a strict stand point the moves and timing got more complicated and so forth.
Yet, the basics of Addition are used to teach the basics of multiplication.
Which keeps going on and on. So even Algebra II and Trig are just basics for that level.
.
Look at the Boxers who shadow box, and jump rope, and they may get into the ring a little months out before a fight.
Yet those prep months before they do their PT and basics and train those.
,
Yes they also had the ring time. Yet before the big fight, they are not out there in the ring five nights a week for the months leading up to that fight.
Yes, Some get into the ring with a training partner to move and hit moving targets, yet this is still their basics. The partner is not a wild card told to their best to "win", they are there to help the other practice their basics.
.
Best Wishes and Good Luck.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

But we know how Daniel-San faired in competition!

True

 

[Tigerwarrior]

Anyone ever met someone who only trains forms and basics?​

I saw your thread title, and wanted to answer the question.
Yes, I have trained only basics for my complete martial art career. (37+ Years)
Forms to an extent, and also shadow striking and imaginary enemy movement.
.
Example: A student trained with us for about a year. They got a Low-mid color belt.
They left and trained for 6 months and got a blackbelt from a cousin art (Different lineage same culture or origin)
.
I saw them 5+_years later and they had a second degree in a Judo.
The asked me in the locker room before the seminar what I was doing. I told same art same location.
They laughed and said you must be a slow learner. I mastered everything you and the rest of that club had to offer, and moved on.
I have gotten three or four Black Belts since then in multiple arts.
What are you studying to keep you there?
.
My reply was: Well as a slow learner, I train and teach the basics. We practice the basics.
Later a person who had overheard the conversation, asked after the seminar, what I called basics as I obviously knew more about joint locks then many that were there at the seminar.
I replied, it is all the basics. As one improves so does ones basics. And if one keeps practicing those basics and getting better then one is still learning.
.
Now yes, from a strict stand point the moves and timing got more complicated and so forth.
Yet, the basics of Addition are used to teach the basics of multiplication.
Which keeps going on and on. So even Algebra II and Trig are just basics for that level.
.
Look at the Boxers who shadow box, and jump rope, and they may get into the ring a little months out before a fight.
Yet those prep months before they do their PT and basics and train those.
,
Yes they also had the ring time. Yet before the big fight, they are not out there in the ring five nights a week for the months leading up to that fight.
Yes, Some get into the ring with a training partner to move and hit moving targets, yet this is still their basics. The partner is not a wild card told to their best to "win", they are there to help the other practice their basics.
.
Best Wishes and Good Luck.

Thanks for the insight. I agree you are right the basics are the most important, you need the basics to build from they are your foundation to build on when and if you advance. There's also nothing wrong just training basics and improving muscle memory so you can strike without thinking and just reflex it. That person you mentioned who had like 4 black belts in like a 5 year span and claimed to master your style was talking crazy, just one system most of them anyways take a whole lifetime to "master" and most never get to that level, also I've talked to masters and to the ones I talked to the title was just that a rank, they still considered themselves life long students. This thread has really opened my eyes and I'm gonna view sparring and training different now. There's more than 1 way to get to this mountain top. Thanks everyone.

 

[Hot Lunch]

If you mean sparring, as in WKF rules or similar, I don't think it prepares you for "real life." As a matter of fact, it probably gives you an unrealistic impression of what actually happens in real life.

In real life, you don't stop, reset, and go back to your marks when one person lands a hit. You're also going to have to take greater risks of getting it in real life, which point sparring punishes you for doing.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

If you mean sparring, as in WKF rules or similar, I don't think it prepares you for "real life." As a matter of fact, it probably gives you an unrealistic impression of what actually happens in real life.

In real life, you don't stop, reset, and go back to your marks when one person lands a hit. You're also going to have to take greater risks of getting it in real life, which point sparring punishes you for doing.

I agree that style of sparring has a few cons for self defense but also some pros, mma is even limited on preparing you for street situations against 1 unarmed person it's pretty good but that's a rarity on the street. That's where the sport and street defense are different. The pros of sport sparring and competition to me should help someone become more street ready but it's not the end all be all. Point sparring pros 1. Good in and out movement, 2. Avoid getting hit at all cost. Just those 2 are pros for me but the stopping and starting of the matches isn't realistic. I always encourage my training partners to compete but get this like this if they are mainly a striker I tell them do a grappling tournament, if they are a grappler I say try a striking competition, if they are trained in both I encourage fma sparring so they can see how fast and how difficult a blade or blunt object is to defend against. The whole goal is to show them that there's more than 1 range of fighting and you don't have to master all ranges that would be impossible, master 1 but be proficient in all ranges. Just my thoughts.

 

[Hot Lunch]

2. Avoid getting hit at all cost.

I don't see this as a pro. Someone who is trained solely in grappling, for example, may go in for a double-leg takedown, knowing full well that they're going to eat some punches while executing it. But considering everything that the grappler will be able to do following that takedown, eating those punches is a small price to pay.

Point sparring doesn't allow you think that way.

 

[drop bear]

If you mean sparring, as in WKF rules or similar, I don't think it prepares you for "real life." As a matter of fact, it probably gives you an unrealistic impression of what actually happens in real life.

In real life, you don't stop, reset, and go back to your marks when one person lands a hit. You're also going to have to take greater risks of getting it in real life, which point sparring punishes you for doing.

But you are still training timing in a competitive setting. You might only train it for one punch. And that isn't great. But it is one more punch than the guy doing drills gets.