Anti-striking

[Kung Fu Wang]

Here is a simple sparring rule:

- If you can punch on my head, you win that round.
- If I can get you into a clinch (either double under hooks, or double over hooks, or head lock), I win that round.

Test for 15 rounds (either you punch on my head first, or I get you in clinch first) and whoever wins more that 7 rounds will be the winner that day.

In other words, my sparring partner can do anything that he wants on me. He doesn't have to worry about my kick, my punch, even my throw. He only have to stop me from doing a clinch. This can be a very civilized sparring.

Through the sparring process, I try to prove whether "anti-striking" is possible or not. I'll need a huge amount of data in order to prove it or dis-prove it.

What's your opinion on this?

 

[wab25]

Watch MMA.

In the beginning, Royce won 3 of the first 4 tournaments and made it through the first 30 minutes in the super fight with Ken Shamrock, before we learned if Royce could take a punch. Now, if you can't strike in MMA, at a certain level you will be picked apart, mostly. Anyway, MMA already has tons of fights and outcomes to be analyzed. Even an evolution of rule changes if you want to factor that in.

 

[marques]

I really like this kind of sparring sessions. At the end it may be 13-2, and you may prove your point or not. But both will learn a lot.

Usually, when sparring rules don’t change, or everything is always allowed, we tend to repeat what we already know. Especially when the opponent is competitive.

 

[Martial D]

Here is a simple sparring rule:

- If you can punch on my head, you win that round.
- If I can get you into a clinch (either double under hooks, or double over hooks, or head lock), I win that round.

Test for 15 rounds (either you punch on my head first, or I get you in clinch first) and whoever wins more that 7 rounds will be the winner that day.

In other words, my sparring partner can do anything that he wants on me. He doesn't have to worry about my kick, my punch, even my throw. He only have to stop me from doing a clinch. This can be a very civilized sparring.

Through the sparring process, I try to prove whether "anti-striking" is possible or not. I'll need a huge amount of data in order to prove it or dis-prove it.

What's your opinion on this?

We drill this exact thing. Not just head punches though, any strike.

 

[skribs]

I would categorize this a game, more than a drill or a sparring session.

There was an interesting game I watched another school play while warming up at a Taekwondo tournament (so, no grappling).

Round 1: Partner up with someone of similar size and try to tag their shoulder. If your opponent tags your shoulder, do 10 pushups and continue going until the coach says stop.
Round 2: Partner up with someone else of similar size and try to tag their knee. If your opponent tags your knee...same as round 1.
Round 3: Partner up with someone of different size. Smaller person must tag the shoulder of the larger person, or larger person must tag the knee of the smaller person. If you get tagged, well, 10 pushups and then keep going.

(By "tag" I mean literally just tap with your hand or fingers, much like on the schoolyard you would tag someone to be "it" in a game of tag).

I think games like this can be fun warmups or fun to try some things out, so long as they don't overtake drills and actual sparring in your practice.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here is a simple sparring rule:

- If you can punch on my head, you win that round.
- If I can get you into a clinch (either double under hooks, or double over hooks, or head lock), I win that round.

Test for 15 rounds (either you punch on my head first, or I get you in clinch first) and whoever wins more that 7 rounds will be the winner that day.

In other words, my sparring partner can do anything that he wants on me. He doesn't have to worry about my kick, my punch, even my throw. He only have to stop me from doing a clinch. This can be a very civilized sparring.

Through the sparring process, I try to prove whether "anti-striking" is possible or not. I'll need a huge amount of data in order to prove it or dis-prove it.

What's your opinion on this?

Games like this can be useful, but don't really prove much about anti-striking. If I only have to worry about your head shots, my defense doesn't have to exist anywhere else, which makes your head strikes easier to deal with (in fact, I can simply assume EVERY move is a head strike - there's no penalty if I'm wrong 99% of the time, except getting tired). Same for you defending my clinch.

It's a good intellectual exercise, and if done sparingly might even improve defense against clinching (I'd argue it's likely to engender habits that make head defense worse over time).

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Games like this can be useful, but don't really prove much about anti-striking. If I only have to worry about your head shots, my defense doesn't have to exist anywhere else, which makes your head strikes easier to deal with (in fact, I can simply assume EVERY move is a head strike - there's no penalty if I'm wrong 99% of the time, except getting tired). Same for you defending my clinch.

It's a good intellectual exercise, and if done sparingly might even improve defense against clinching (I'd argue it's likely to engender habits that make head defense worse over time).

I prefer to make the drill a little less specific. One partner gets to strike, the other only gets to clinch. It becomes a good exercise for understanding distance and footwork.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If I only have to worry about your head shots, ...

Old saying said, "If you don't hit your opponent's head, you may have to fight him from sun raise until sun set." If I can protect my head well, most of the body shot will be hard to knock me out.

 

[skribs]

Old saying said, "If you don't hit your opponent's head, you may have to fight him from sun raise until sun set." If I can protect my head well, most of the body shot will be hard to knock me out.

Ever been hit hard in the solar plexus or taken a powerful shot to the liver or kidneys?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I prefer to make the drill a little less specific. One partner gets to strike, the other only gets to clinch. It becomes a good exercise for understanding distance and footwork.

The only concern of your suggestion can be:

A may take several head punches from B and finally gets a clinch on B. Next time, B may punch harder on A's head. The training will become very unfriendly.

To obtain clinch without been punched on the head will be my goal.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ever been hit hard in the solar plexus or taken a powerful shot to the liver or kidneys?

I have spent 8 months in full contact fight. 4 times a week and 2 hours each session. Each session my opponent and I just tried to knock down each other (there was no control there). During that 8 months, there was not a single day that my body didn't feel pain.

The body shot is still hurt. But it's not as bad as a knock out punch.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Old saying said, "If you don't hit your opponent's head, you may have to fight him from sun raise until sun set." If I can protect my head well, most of the body shot will be hard to knock me out.

But if you use the same protection you used for that drill, you probably leave your body open for power shots. Watch how boxers and MMA fighters get head shots on people who are very head-protective: they hit them hard enough in the body to cause that guard to drop. That drop is pretty predictable, and leaves the person more open to a head shot than if they worked to defend both.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I prefer to make the drill a little less specific. One partner gets to strike, the other only gets to clinch. It becomes a good exercise for understanding distance and footwork.

And that forces an entirely different strike defense. This is a drill that's particularly useful for grapplers who have weak strikes - they need to defend well enough to get to the clinch - if they can get to that, they can get to a lot of their grappling and take out a lot of the striking.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The only concern of your suggestion can be:

A may take several head punches from B and finally gets a clinch on B. Next time, B may punch harder on A's head. The training will become very unfriendly.

To obtain clinch without been punched on the head will be my goal.

That would be the goal in Tony's example, too. But they won't get to ignore the other strikes in the process.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

you probably leave your body open for power shots.

The trade off is when my opponent punches at my body, his head will be exposed. According to my strategy, that's the particular moment that I'm waiting for .

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That would be the goal in Tony's example, too. But they won't get to ignore the other strikes in the process.

My game rule will allow my opponent to kick, punch, elbow, knee any part of my body too. The only difference is my opponent won't win that round until he can punch my head.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The trade off is when my opponent punches at my body, his head will be exposed. According to my strategy, that's the particular moment that I'm waiting for .

His head is only as exposed when punching as yours is. Punches always leave a gap. The issue is if you are solely defending your head, you're actually probably more open to predictable head shots than if you also protect your body.

And a liver shot absolutely will take someone out, if delivered with sufficient power. If I have an opponent only protecting their head, I'll angle left and deliver a power-hook to the liver as often as I can. From there, I'm not very exposed (because of my angle) and have good access to deliver damage. Their best shot at my head is a right hook/round in response, but they also need that arm to defend their liver. If they go for the punch, they then open their head to my right jab. It's not a guarantee, but it's a better bet than if they have that right elbow a bit lower to defend that liver.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My game rule will allow my opponent to kick, punch, elbow, knee any part of my body too. The only difference is my opponent won't win that round until he can punch my head.

Ah - that wasn't in your original post. That helps keep the defense honest. If you tried to game the rules, you open yourself up to the headshot I'm talking about, so you'd keep your defense more solid. Assuming, of course, they don't go only for head shots.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The issue is if you are solely defending your head, you're actually probably more open to predictable head shots than if you also protect your body.

I don't understand your logic here.

If you try to punch me, your arms will be away from your head and your head will be exposed. If I don't have intention to punch you, and also I don't have intention to drop my arms to deal with your body shot, I can hide my head well behind my rhino guard.

My rhino guard has only 2 purpose:

1. Protect my head.
2. Obtain a clinch.

You are trying to do many things on me. I only try to do 1 thing on you. Who will have better chance?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ah - that wasn't in your original post.

I assume that is just common sense without saying. You can go to a Judo tournament and knock your opponent down. You just don't win that Judo match.