An Aikidoka's controversial journey into MMA: Is it helpful?

[now disabled]

As I said, it lacks the "on your back" stuff, but the suwari waza gives a framework for learning to fight from other ground positions. The same basic principles that can be adapted from standing technique can be adapted from suwari waza, as well. It's unlikely to look like the training drills from suwari waza, but it's there.

All the standing techs can be done from suwari ...it the ease of movement that I'm getting at yes they can be adapted like any other as you say just that is one thing I must admit does not instill me with confidence lol

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm trying to think of a situation where if I went into hiza it would be of any real advantage except for possibly taking away the chance for leg grabs ??? as really the ground is the last place I wanna be truly

I can't imagine a situation where it would be an advantage. But imagine you've just fallen (shoved, slipped on some beer, tripped over something, whatever) and managed NOT to end up on your back - and the other guy is either standing or kneeling, continuing his attack. You do have some tools there that can be put to use. I don't think the way they are commonly taught gets to that point.

 

[jobo]

I thought I made my point pretty clearly. Aikido - when stripped down to the classical and entirely aiki stuff - is at a handicap.

You seem to be taking my statement to be something it's not.

Ok so it becomes more effective if you turn it into a mixed martial art, ? Does it become as effective as the other more famous mixed martial art, ? If not, why not mix it with other ma so it is ?

 

[now disabled]

I find it helpful to work things from the knees against a standing opponent.its a very common transitionary ground position, either having been forced there, gone there willingly and it didn't go according to plan(like say if you shoot a double and get sprawled on), or if you are on your way back to your feet from the ground.

The one thing about position is you don't always get to pick. It's good to drill from all positions you very well might end up in to save you from being smashed in those positions later.

I get what your saying in gist just suwari waza is not something that fills me with confidence at all ....yes I can do it (or could lol) just other that or the mats I'd not be over confident and it would be really a last resort for sure at least for me

 

[now disabled]

I can't imagine a situation where it would be an advantage. But imagine you've just fallen (shoved, slipped on some beer, tripped over something, whatever) and managed NOT to end up on your back - and the other guy is either standing or kneeling, continuing his attack. You do have some tools there that can be put to use. I don't think the way they are commonly taught gets to that point.

Oh yeah I get you there I am not saying I wouldn't just that confines are not something I'd actually like to test out lol ...but I do get your point ...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok so it becomes more effective if you turn it into a mixed martial art, ? Does it become as effective as the other more famous mixed martial art, ? If not, why not mix it with other ma so it is ?

That'll depend how we define "more effective". I don't see the aiki stuff as a primary defense, but as a top layer that opens new opportunities for finishing and some new evasions. I think it is at its best when mixed with other MA, or at least taught with a fighting foundation. What it makes available isn't probably worth the effort for MMA competition, since the better the competitors get, the less likely they are to provide those openings very often.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I get what your saying in gist just suwari waza is not something that fills me with confidence at all ....yes I can do it (or could lol) just other that or the mats I'd not be over confident and it would be really a last resort for sure at least for me

That's actually a good thing. Being on the ground is bad, and should be a last resort in most situations, unless you heavily outclass your attacker down there - something that's hard to know until you're into it.

 

[now disabled]

Ok so it becomes more effective if you turn it into a mixed martial art, ? Does it become as effective as the other more famous mixed martial art, ? If not, why not mix it with other ma so it is ?

see if you read the post by @Tony Dismukes ....if you know how to fight then Aikido techs are extremely useful .....but just going classical and thinking on the street that would work well it might but I seriously wouldn't like to try it

 

[jobo]

That'll depend how we define "more effective". I don't see the aiki stuff as a primary defense, but as a top layer that opens new opportunities for finishing and some new evasions. I think it is at its best when mixed with other MA, or at least taught with a fighting foundation. What it makes available isn't probably worth the effort for MMA competition, since the better the competitors get, the less likely they are to provide those openings very often.

More effective would seem to be that it wins more fights, but here's the conundrum, if your going to mix it with say judo, what not mix it with Brazilian jujitsu, instead, and then any other effective technique, then it no time at all it would look almost exactly like mma,

 

[now disabled]

I thought I made my point pretty clearly. Aikido - when stripped down to the classical and entirely aiki stuff - is at a handicap.

You seem to be taking my statement to be something it's not.

that cause so much in modern dojo's is placed on the Aiki side and that is what people see and actually trying to get a person to grasp the Aiki and it's meaning is often like smacking the head on the brick wall lol

and your spot on aiki is only part of it not the whole just that gets misinterpreted mostly imo

 

[now disabled]

More effective would seem to be that it wins more fights, but here's the conundrum, if your going to mix it with say judo, what not mix it with Brazilian jujitsu, instead, and then any other effective technique, then it no time at all it would look almost exactly like mma,

Bro some or the original Judoka were sent to Ueshiba to study ...to me if you gonna mix it then BJJ is the one and the rest in my view is there ...ok it may not be taught now but it there

 

[Hanzou]

see if you read the post by @Tony Dismukes ....if you know how to fight then Aikido techs are extremely useful .....but just going classical and thinking on the street that would work well it might but I seriously wouldn't like to try it

To be fair, I learned to fight by taking Bjj, Karate, Boxing, and other MAs. Are you saying that Aikido essentially doesn't teach you how to fight?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

More effective would seem to be that it wins more fights, but here's the conundrum, if your going to mix it with say judo, what not mix it with Brazilian jujitsu, instead, and then any other effective technique, then it no time at all it would look almost exactly like mma,

No reason not to, really. Aikido can combine with any style, I think. Of course, once you combine enough styles, it's not really Aikido+ anymore, it's an amalgam of styles. Nothing wrong with that. But if someone wants to stick with Aikido, and want it to have fighting effectiveness, they need something to provide the foundation. That can be taught within the school (basic striking, basic grappling) or learned elsewhere.

I doubt adding Aikido to something makes it likely to win more fights by any significant margin if you counted on seeing specific techniques. It will open up some new opportunities, so might bring some margin of additional success over time, and that will probably come more from the principles than the techniques. I think it's more likely to extend the longevity of the overall skillset, reducing the need for speed and strength somewhat with normal mortals.

 

[oftheherd1]

I could definitely see this guy eventually go the Roy Dean route and simply merge his Aikido training with some Bjj or MMA. He interviewed Roy Dean a few times, so I'm sure he's already considered that.

Your last point is a very interesting one, and I think that's the one where a few people get concerned with videos like these. I can imagine that individuals owning Aikido dojos aren't very happy with the present state of things, because the goal of many people in self defense (right or wrong) is to stop the boxer or the wrestler and it appears that Aikido doesn't have an answer for that at the present time.

I have some difficulty accepting that Aikido doesn't have an answer to boxers and wrestlers. Perhaps some of the Aikido practitioners will correct me if I am wrong. At least within the Aikido rule set. MMA has a different rule set, just as boxing and wrestling, and rightly so. Then one must consider the relative abilities of any two contestants.

Like @now disabled I have a curiosity about the way the Aikidoist reacted to the attacks. It may he was befuddled by a new rule set, I don't know. But he looked way more unsure of himself than I would have expected of someone who is allowed to have his own Aikido school.

 

[now disabled]

To be fair, I learned to fight by taking Bjj, Karate, Boxing, and other MAs. Are you saying that Aikido essentially doesn't teach you how to fight?

Nope lol where are you basing that one on?

 

[Hanzou]

I have some difficulty accepting that Aikido doesn't have an answer to boxers and wrestlers. Perhaps some of the Aikido practitioners will correct me if I am wrong. At least within the Aikido rule set. MMA has a different rule set, just as boxing and wrestling, and rightly so. Then one must consider the relative abilities of any two contestants.

Well the difference is that Boxing and Wrestling advertise themselves as competitive sports. Aikido advertises itself as a holistic self defense system.

 

[now disabled]

No reason not to, really. Aikido can combine with any style, I think. Of course, once you combine enough styles, it's not really Aikido+ anymore, it's an amalgam of styles. Nothing wrong with that. But if someone wants to stick with Aikido, and want it to have fighting effectiveness, they need something to provide the foundation. That can be taught within the school (basic striking, basic grappling) or learned elsewhere.

I doubt adding Aikido to something makes it likely to win more fights by any significant margin if you counted on seeing specific techniques. It will open up some new opportunities, so might bring some margin of additional success over time, and that will probably come more from the principles than the techniques. I think it's more likely to extend the longevity of the overall skillset, reducing the need for speed and strength somewhat with normal mortals.

just adds more tools in the tool chest if you combine

 

[Hanzou]

Nope lol where are you basing that one on?

You said that Aikido techs are effective if you already know how to fight. That would imply that if you don't know how to fight, the Aikido techs aren't effective.

It should also be noted that it would difficult if not impossible to become a high ranking Bjj practicioner or a Boxing/Wrestling coach without effective technques.

 

[now disabled]

Well the difference is that Boxing and Wrestling advertise themselves as competitive sports. Aikido advertises itself as a holistic self defense system.

Ah now we gonna get into it lol ....what are you basing that on lol as I will debate with you on that totally

 

[now disabled]

You said that Aikido techs are effective if you already know how to fight. That would imply that if you don't know how to fight, the Aikido techs aren't effective.

It should also be noted that it would difficult if not impossible to become a high ranking Bjj practicioner or a Boxing/Wrestling coach without effective technques.

no Aikido techs are effective .....the learning to fight is a whole different ball park