An Aikidoka's controversial journey into MMA: Is it helpful?

[now disabled]

I think that's honestly how he feels right now. He might change his mind later, if he actually learns how to layer the aiki movement and concepts on top of what he gets from MMA training. He may wish later he'd been less harsh in his wording, or he may not. If he was someone from NGA and came to me later to try to build on his prior NGA training, I'd be happy to have him - I'd expect his combined experience to bring a lot to a school. I don't think any of the CI's I trained under would likely have the same response.

Aikido is way more political and jeez if they can write out or try to Saito Morihiro then well does that give ya an idea what I mean lol

 

[Martial D]

and a wrestler yes Aikido has the tools for that

Evidence?

 

[now disabled]

I agree with that. I don't think anyone knowingly taught him poorly, passed along bad techniques, etc. But right now, he's feeling very let down and is willing to share those thoughts just as he shared his disappointment in his own performance.

His tech isn't that bad really he just well needs more time and to get the lead outta his boots lol

 

[now disabled]

Evidence?

lol not again lol as anything I say you will just put down so lets not go there lol

 

[jobo]

There ain't any comp Aikido fighters lol or none that use pure Aikido lol

??????? How about impure aikido then ? I'm fact anything that looks even slightly like aikido v an mma, fighter.

Saying he is no fighter and his skills are" ok" rather suggests that there exists a fighter with better skills that would change the result of at least the performance level.

 

[now disabled]

??????? How about impure aikido then ? I'm fact anything that looks even slightly like aikido v an mma, fighter.

Saying he is no fighter and his skills are" ok" rather suggests that there exists a fighter with better skills that would change the result of at least the performance level.

Bro there is no footage I know of that shows any pure Aikidoka going in a ring with an MMA guy ....Aikikido is not a comp art (and beore anyone yells Tomiki ok that is but under very very different rules lol)

 

[jobo]

I do agree with what your saying

I love the classical Aikido and always will does it work on the street as in seen in the Dojo ummm no hence why I guess I arue a rattle on about Aikido so much and look deeper into things or try to lol ....Classical Aikido is flowing and beautiful to do and watch ...street Aikido is ugly and not nice to see and much of it is not recognizable to any who cannot see where certain ideas and concepts are coming from. To me and this ids just me the street Aikido is more akin to what Ueshiba first taught and what in his first book he had translated (even that he was almost forced to do and that was not translated until after his death ) , it had the Atemi and the slightly different ideas lol and well mix in a bit of pure Daito-ryu a bit of ground work and more than anything common sense and you got a street system as such.

Really what that guy is kinda doing is burning his own bridges in a way as doing what he is doing so publicly (yeah some may call it balls ) he will find it difficult to throw off later if he ever wants to return and study more and deeper as pissing off the future shihan and high dan grades would do have clout within Aikido is not the wisest move as it kinda unlikely that he will ever he overly welcome again to grade ....I say that as really he has sorta said I'm a former BB now I'm an MMA guy and well not the wisest move at all imo

He really does seriously need to learn to move lol as he is well umm kinda got lead in his boots as far as fighting is concerned and he has (I went and looked) posted a vid saying he used Aikido in a fight himself and a near fight and noe he saying really nope it don't work what I just taught all my students offered a deshi program was all rubbish .....again not the wisest of moves imo

Maybe it's occurred to him that having a successful you tube channel is more profitable than running a dojo ?

 

[Hanzou]

I will take issue with you that it cannot stop the wrestler or the boxer ..........if it a pro boxer then possibly not but tell me what art would ? and a wrestler yes Aikido has the tools for that

Honestly? Gracie JJ practitioners have defeated pro boxers in the past. Royce Gracie in particular fought and beat a professional boxer in the first UFC. Judo Gene Lebelle also beat a professional boxer some years ago. So that's two martial arts right there.

Are you basing that on what he said when he went to ground as if you then well no basically ....yeah Aikido doesn't have ground techs the secret is don't go to ground (ok don't jump at me ) No Aikidoka will go to ground unless he makes a real screw up and again don't base that on that clip as seriously that lad is no fighter at all

Yeah, that's a pretty bad secret. Instead of teaching someone "not to go to the ground" the student should be taught how to fight from that position. With all the information available, there's no excuse to not learn how to fight from that position.

 

[jobo]

Bro there is no footage I know of that shows any pure Aikidoka going in a ring with an MMA guy ....Aikikido is not a comp art (and beore anyone yells Tomiki ok that is but under very very different rules lol)

Yes I know that, it's major problem and that of a good few other arts, is they don't compete and thus refine their skills..

That just pointing out the problem identified in the vid,
But the solution to that issue is what ?

Accept its not a good way to learn to fight.
Insist it is, but refuse to demonstrating that and criticise any one who tries as not very good.

 

[now disabled]

Honestly? Gracie JJ practitioners have defeated pro boxers in the past. Royce Gracie in particular fought and beat a professional boxer in the first UFC. Judo Gene Lebelle also beat a professional boxer some years ago. So that's two martial arts right there.



Yeah, that's a pretty bad secret. Instead of teaching someone "not to go to the ground" the student should be taught how to fight from that position. With all the information available, there's no excuse to not learn how to fight from that position.

Using a Gracie is ummm wwell picking the cream of the top is it not

And no excuse ok ...... I not gonna go into tha as you may well not like what I will come up with or say so lets not go down the excuse road ok .................................The tools are there they are all there it is how you use them

 

[now disabled]

Yes I know that, it's major problem and that of a good few other arts, is they don't compete and thus refine their skills..

That just pointing out the problem identified in the vid,



I do get you I do and yes there are flaws and some people do like to play on them ........But does not every art have them? and well on the street your common sense plays a major role ...we in my opinion it does
But the solution to that issue is what ?

Accept its not a good way to learn to fight.
Insist it is, but refuse to demonstrating that and criticise any one who tries as not very good.

 

[Hanzou]

Using a Gracie is ummm wwell picking the cream of the top is it not

Well we were talking about professionals, so that kind of means the cream of the crop right? If you sparse it out a bit, boxers have generally done poorly against MMA and BJJ practitioners because of the lack of ground game and take down defense.

And no excuse ok ...... I not gonna go into tha as you may well not like what I will come up with or say so lets not go down the excuse road ok .................................The tools are there they are all there it is how you use them

No need to be defensive. You made a claim and people are simply curious about it and want you to provide evidence to back up your claim.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok isn't good, it's eer, just ok.
But then who is the more than just ok fighter that will uphold the reputation of aikido. And where are the contests that demonstrate this

Against a good fighter, it would take an exceptional fighter (in my opinion) to use a lot of aiki movement - what we might actually recognize as Aikido. A good fighter will be using the same foundation as people from other styles (solid defense against striking, their own striking game, etc.) more often than Aikido. Then, when they go to grappling, they'll look a bit more like a Judo player or Jitser than "classical" Aikido, unless something just sets up beautifully. Again, look to Tomiki's Shotokan Aikido and their competitions, and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Martial D]

lol not again lol as anything I say you will just put down so lets not go there lol

No..I've never put anything down. As before, an unsupported claim has been made. If you can't or won't provide evidence for a claim, why even make it?

I could just as easily say wingchun has the solution for beating wrestlers, but I wouldn't expect anyone to take me too seriously if I couldn't back that claim up. At it so happens I would never make that claim.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Honestly? Gracie JJ practitioners have defeated pro boxers in the past. Royce Gracie in particular fought and beat a professional boxer in the first UFC. Judo Gene Lebelle also beat a professional boxer some years ago. So that's two martial arts right there.



Yeah, that's a pretty bad secret. Instead of teaching someone "not to go to the ground" the student should be taught how to fight from that position. With all the information available, there's no excuse to not learn how to fight from that position.

Aikido does actually have ground techniques. They are from the knees, rather than from mount/guard, but they do provide the framework for ground defense. In fact, there are several classical drills that are specifically done from kneeling positions, and there used to be (not sure if there still is) a lot of kneeling technique taught. If that's trained with some resistance, it can create a reasonable set of answers from being knocked down. They don't have much that I've seen in the way of what to do if someone shoots in and takes you directly to your back, though the principles for basic BJJ bridging/sweeps would be easy to incorporate.

 

[now disabled]

Well we were talking about professionals, so that kind of means the cream of the crop right? If you sparse it out a bit, boxers have generally done poorly against MMA and BJJ practitioners because of the lack of ground game and take down defense.



No need to be defensive. You made a claim and people are simply curious about it and want you to provide evidence to back up your claim.

No you my friend raised the pros names lol ......

defensive yup I will always defend Aikido come what may but to list everything that could be done is pointless really

but in that vid he tried to go for a wrist lock ....well the othere guy had gloves on he did not even remotely try to enter he was like a rabbit in the head lights from the get go and he in some ways beat himself ......do you think all Aikidoka move like that ? cause I can assure ya they don't lol

 

[jobo]

Against a good fighter, it would take an exceptional fighter (in my opinion) to use a lot of aiki movement - what we might actually recognize as Aikido. A good fighter will be using the same foundation as people from other styles (solid defense against striking, their own striking game, etc.) more often than Aikido. Then, when they go to grappling, they'll look a bit more like a Judo player or Jitser than "classical" Aikido, unless something just sets up beautifully. Again, look to Tomiki's Shotokan Aikido and their competitions, and you'll see what I mean.

I don't know where to go with that,??? Does that mean that some where there is a GREAT a aikido fighter who could take on a good mma fighter using aikido and at least make a contest of it, ? Is this an actual identifiable person or a myth like say dragons, or just a conclusion that in a universe of infinite possibilities such a person must exist, possibly as close as a few million light years away

 

[now disabled]

No..I've never put anything down. As before, an unsupported claim has been made. If you can't or won't provide evidence for a claim, why even make it?

I could just as easily say wingchun has the solution for beating wrestlers, but I wouldn't expect anyone to take me too seriously if I couldn't back that claim up. At it so happens I would never make that claim.

No matter what I say you won't believe and I am not going back to you then demanding vids and then saying I'm having a go etc etc et al


You have your view and that great I ain't gonna change it so there it is

 

[now disabled]

Aikido does actually have ground techniques. They are from the knees, rather than from mount/guard, but they do provide the framework for ground defense. In fact, there are several classical drills that are specifically done from kneeling positions, and there used to be (not sure if there still is) a lot of kneeling technique taught. If that's trained with some resistance, it can create a reasonable set of answers from being knocked down. They don't have much that I've seen in the way of what to do if someone shoots in and takes you directly to your back, though the principles for basic BJJ bridging/sweeps would be easy to incorporate.

Suwari waza isn't really ground tech and I doubt if folks would see it as ground tech

 

[Martial D]

No matter what I say you won't believe and I am not going back to you then demanding vids and then saying I'm having a go etc etc et al


You have your view and that great I ain't gonna change it so there it is

You're right, only evidence would change it. I would imagine you are the same way about every other subject but this one.