American Kenpo or Kajukenbo?

[Touch Of Death]

It was many years ago. I don't remember the sensei's full name. Last name was Martin. It was in Mountain View, California in 1979.
Maybe Don Martin or Steve Martin. It's really hard to remember so long ago. From the various posts I've read here, I'm beginning to perceive that it's possible my teacher was either teaching outdated techniques or was otherwise no longer in step with Ed Parker. Still, seems hard for me to believe since that was back in the heyday of Am. Kenpo and it was in California where that style was pretty hot.

The style was hot, but, not every practitioner was so hot.

 

[Flying Crane]

Now I'm no expert on kenpo but isn't that the point everyone's kenpo should be different. Parker had his ways that worked for him but he still taught the standard art so everyone got the same information and then made the changes themselves to what they need. It's like no 2 kickboxers fight the same way no 2 grapplers roll the same way no 2 kenpo practitioners are going do things different and also just to add it's very easy to criticise someone when he's dead.

This isn't me being a kenpo fan boy as you can tell by my username but I'm just using common sense here

According to Ron Chapel, no. And he is not criticizing Mr. Parker.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

he problem with American Kenpo with likes like wing chun that has same major problem is it takes 6 to 8 years to be really good at it.
It not that boxing is better it is that it takes American Kenpo and likes of say wing chun long time to learn


QUOTE=" , post: 1774710 he problem with American Kenpo with likes like wing chun that has same major problem is it takes 6 to 8 years to be really good at it.
It not that boxing is better it is that it takes American Kenpo and likes of say wing chun long time to learn



I'm not sure what you mean.

He means you keep repeating yourself

 

[Kenpoguy123]

The problem with American Kenpo with likes like wing chun that has same major problem is it takes 6 to 8 years to be really good at it.

Where two years of boxing you can be really good. It not that boxing is better it is that it takes American Kenpo and likes of say wing chun long time to learn.

It like comparing EMT to say a doctor.

There so much to learn and it takes long time for it to be second nature.

If you want to take say American Kenpo or wing chun well good!! But to be really good at it well it will take you 6 to 8 years!! Yes training two or three times a week to be really good at it.

Rubbish maybe it takes 6 to 8 years to learn every single technique and form but that doesn't mean you can't use it in less time. You can learn the first ten techniques and practice them all the time then you'll be good at those techniques very quickly if you practice them constantly and yeah in boxing there's only a few moves so then you won't be as complete a fighter if you just use hands

 

[Touch Of Death]

Rubbish maybe it takes 6 to 8 years to learn every single technique and form but that doesn't mean you can't use it in less time. You can learn the first ten techniques and practice them all the time then you'll be good at those techniques very quickly if you practice them constantly and yeah in boxing there's only a few moves so then you won't be as complete a fighter if you just use hands

I agree. If you teach the student a set, which includes, every direction of attack, it becomes, shall we say, not rocket science.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

I agree. If you teach the student a set, which includes, every direction of attack, it becomes, shall we say, not rocket science.

I remember a story my late instructor once told how in his younger days he visited an Air Force base where one of the officers was teaching kenpo to the recruits as extra curricular stuff but since the Air Force wouldn't allow the students to wear a gi since it wasnt Air Force uniform the instructor wouldn't promote them and only taught them the first 10 yellow belt techique and for years that's all they trained those moves and my instructor they looked amazing the best he'd ever seen those done because they practiced those 10 daily and apparently later the students were allowed gi so they advanced but then rushed to learn more stuff and that started looking sloppy because they were rushing through it

 

[drop bear]

Rubbish maybe it takes 6 to 8 years to learn every single technique and form but that doesn't mean you can't use it in less time. You can learn the first ten techniques and practice them all the time then you'll be good at those techniques very quickly if you practice them constantly and yeah in boxing there's only a few moves so then you won't be as complete a fighter if you just use hands

Not that many expert boxers with less than 6 years. By the way.

 

[Tames D]

I remember a story my late instructor once told how in his younger days he visited an Air Force base where one of the officers was teaching kenpo to the recruits as extra curricular stuff but since the Air Force wouldn't allow the students to wear a gi since it wasnt Air Force uniform the instructor wouldn't promote them and only taught them the first 10 yellow belt techique and for years that's all they trained those moves and my instructor they looked amazing the best he'd ever seen those done because they practiced those 10 daily and apparently later the students were allowed gi so they advanced but then rushed to learn more stuff and that started looking sloppy because they were rushing through it

Is a gi required in Kenpo to advance to new material? It seems to me that they could still promote to new levels without wearing a belt. The sifu should be able to sign certs.

 

[drop bear]

Is a gi required in Kenpo to advance to new material? It seems to me that they could still promote to new levels without wearing a belt. The sifu should be able to sign certs.

In a lot of the beej you wouldn't.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Is a gi required in Kenpo to advance to new material? It seems to me that they could still promote to new levels without wearing a belt. The sifu should be able to sign certs.

I can't imagine an instructor in any art telling a group of students that they can't advance because they're not allowed by one of the armed forces to wear a gi. That is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Tired_Yeti]

I remember a story my late instructor once told how in his younger days he visited an Air Force base where one of the officers was teaching kenpo to the recruits as extra curricular stuff but since the Air Force wouldn't allow the students to wear a gi since it wasnt Air Force uniform the instructor wouldn't promote them and only taught them the first 10 yellow belt techique and for years that's all they trained those moves and my instructor they looked amazing the best he'd ever seen those done because they practiced those 10 daily and apparently later the students were allowed gi so they advanced but then rushed to learn more stuff and that started looking sloppy because they were rushing through it

Sounds like you were fed a load of BS.
1) Officers don't train recruits. Sergeants (usually E6 and E7 grades) do as far as military training. An officer could teach a karate class in his personal time after duty hours but it would not be considered official government business.
2) Kenpo is not and was not the official hand-to-hand system taught to the US military; therefore...
3) They would not have trained during duty hours. They would train during their off-duty/free time--which means they would have had no mandatory uniform requirement.
4) Even if they had to train in the physical fitness uniform, there would be no reason they could not train, test, and advance in rank. They simply would not be able to wear the belt during class and would have had to simply keep it "at home". Even then, there's no reason they couldn't have been given a belt for their personal display or collection.

More nonsense...and you guys wonder why I shake my head at American Kenpo.


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[Touch Of Death]

Sounds like you were fed a load of BS.
1) Officers don't train recruits. Sergeants (usually E6 and E7 grades) do as far as military training. An officer could teach a karate class in his personal time after duty hours but it would not be considered official government business.
2) Kenpo is not and was not the official hand-to-hand system taught to the US military; therefore...
3) They would not have trained during duty hours. They would train during their off-duty/free time--which means they would have had no mandatory uniform requirement.
4) Even if they had to train in the physical fitness uniform, there would be no reason they could not train, test, and advance in rank. They simply would not be able to wear the belt during class and would have had to simply keep it "at home". Even then, there's no reason they couldn't have been given a belt for their personal display or collection.

More nonsense...and you guys wonder why I shake my head at American Kenpo.


Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk

I'm shaking my head at you. What does some second hand anecdotal experience have to do with American Kenpo?

 

[moonhill99]

Rubbish maybe it takes 6 to 8 years to learn every single technique and form but that doesn't mean you can't use it in less time. You can learn the first ten techniques and practice them all the time then you'll be good at those techniques very quickly if you practice them constantly and yeah in boxing there's only a few moves so then you won't be as complete a fighter if you just use hands

No I don't think that what people mean when they say Kenpo or wing chun takes 6 to 8 years to get really good at it.

It not the technique or number of technique it is being really good at it.

A metaphor would be like learning Morse code ,keyboard typing or shorthand. You could learn it in day or two but to be really good at it and really fast it will take time.

Some one spending two or three times a week for say 4 years learning Morse code ,keyboard typing or shorthand will be really fast and good than some one spending only a weak.

Some martial arts out there to get really good at it takes last time and other martial arts out there take longer with Kenpo and wing chun being one of them.

Also I don't think anyone here is saying you can be pro boxer in last than 6 years.

 

[moonhill99]

Not that many expert boxers with less than 6 years. By the way.

It the amount of time takes longer.

The beginner, intermediate, advanced and really advanced.

Boxing you can reach advanced faster than say Kenpo or wing chun.

Not a advanced in 6 yes of boxing but well above intermediate. Where you be getting close to intermediate at say Kenpo or wing chun with only 6 years.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

It the amount of time takes longer.

The beginner, intermediate, advanced and really advanced.

Boxing you can reach advanced faster than say Kenpo or wing chun.

Not a advanced in 6 yes of boxing but well above intermediate. Where you be getting close to intermediate at say Kenpo or wing chun with only 6 years.

Do you have any experience in either style to actually say this or are you just making assumptions

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

It the amount of time takes longer.

The beginner, intermediate, advanced and really advanced.

Boxing you can reach advanced faster than say Kenpo or wing chun.

Not a advanced in 6 yes of boxing but well above intermediate. Where you be getting close to intermediate at say Kenpo or wing chun with only 6 years.

You can very easily reach what would be considered intermediate in Kenpo in less than 6 years. If you have been practicing for 6 years, I'd say you are at the very least in the advanced stage, and possibly in the really advanced (possibly because that distinction is really arbitrary and I got no clue what you need to do to get the "really" added).

 

[lqkenpo]

'Its not how long you have been in the art, its how long you have been at it' - Ed Parker

Again a student who practices twice a week in lessons and gets to a certain level in 6 years. but if the student practices 4 times a week can get to a level in 3 years. all students are different and the training and material should be tailored to the student. There are no bad students just bad instructors.

Tired_Yeti I think honestly it sounds like you had a bad experience of Kenpo which is a shame. I would recommend going to the family black belt tree of Mr. Parker and seek out one of the direct seniors or there of. Trejo, Wedlake, Chapel, Dennis Conaster, Rich hale, Mohamed Tabatabi, Graham Lelliott, Bob White, John Sepevelda, Angelo Collado, (although not Parker direct from my knowledge he is a wonderful martial artist trainedd by Frank Trejo) etc. See if this changes your mind. if it doesn't then that's fine. Every martial arts is fantastic and works in the context of which it is designed for.

 

[moonhill99]

Do you have any experience in either style to actually say this or are you just making assumptions

No it is people that said Kenpo or wing chun takes long time to be good at it. Where in two or three years of boxing you be really good at it!!! But to be that good at say Kenpo or wing chun it take 6 years or more.

Now well there is lot of anti- Kenpo and anti-wing chun people out there and MMA and boxers that like to talk trash about Kenpo or wing chun. So if that is false.Than I will take it back.

If it is false and by 6 to 8 years mark you be looking at more closer to advance level Kenpo or advance level wing chun.

And 4 years of boxing you be at intermediate level and 4 years of Kenpo or 4 years of wing chun you be at intermediate level.

 

[Tez3]

A metaphor would be like learning Morse code ,keyboard typing or shorthand. You could learn it in day or two but to be really good at it and really fast it will take time.

Some one spending two or three times a week for say 4 years learning Morse code ,keyboard typing or shorthand will be really fast and good than some one spending only a weak.

Nope, when I was in the RAF, Morse was still taught, it took only a few lessons, some memorising and practice. You would be an expert within weeks as indeed the operators were. Takes years, no in the least.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

No it is people that said Kenpo or wing chun takes long time to be good at it. Where in two or three years of boxing you be really good at it!!! But to be that good at say Kenpo or wing chun it take 6 years or more.

Now well there is lot of anti- Kenpo and anti-wing chun people out there and MMA and boxers that like to talk trash about Kenpo or wing chun. So if that is false.Than I will take it back.

If it is false and by 6 to 8 years mark you be looking at more closer to advance level Kenpo or advance level wing chun.

And 4 years of boxing you be at intermediate level and 4 years of Kenpo or 4 years of wing chun you be at intermediate level.

Since apparently you missed it, read my response to you a couple posts back.