Dark said:
But a street fight is not self-defense. I broke it down to three catagories,
Brawling- Of course drunken ego insighted fighting.
Self-Defense- Reaction to a one time criminal action, being held up. Ussually there is something you have they want.
Street Fighting- Basically repeated violent behavior, and a sub-culture of poor oppressed people in slums and really bad portions of town, so to speak.
So streetfighting is more like gang warfare but doesn't include being attacked in the streets? This doesn't make much sense.
Being robbered is of course self defense, but repeatedly robbed, harrassed and assaulted all because someone has a self-esseme complex is basically street fighting.
So you're breaking down assaults by psycological relationship? How much "self esteem complex" (a rather ambigous pop-psycology term at best) is involved before it becomes "streetfighting" as opposed to self-defense and vice versa?
1) Yes, the will to survive can be cultivated/taught. We all have it but unless your specifically trying to build on it you will never see it.
I still very much doubt this.
2) The reason people lose street fights is one, they don't know how to act in a rough enviroment and two, because they think anything but preparing you for the street, prepares them for the street. Sparring being the example.
Lots of people are comfortable in rough envirments, grew up there and so forth, and still lose. Plenty of them were never "contaminated" by realistic training off the street. Do you think some sort of will to live will overcome all else?
Then what prepares you for the street? Better yet, how much of the street do you know, first hand? And bare in mind I define the street as a sub-culture based on fear and fear enduced dominance...
Well, seeing as all real fights consist of full contact no-rules contact, anything short is only an approximation. Sports approximate such fights by getting as close as is safely possible. Those who practice sportfighting methods are adjusted to full power strikes, which RBSD nuts don't practice with, lest it shatter the myths of their training methods.
Did you read any of the those links I posted or are you lopping people teaching watered down bunkai drills as RBSD.
No, there are lots of bad training drills that have nothing to do with RBSD. I'm not lumping the various problems all in with that.
When your talking RBSD Im more for Bruce Lee,
The "father of sportsfighting" (together with Gene Lebell)? The man who was one of the first to advocate weightraining for those practicing eastern martial arts? The man who said to seek reality in combat and advocated hard, full contact sparring, promulgated the use of pads before Jhoon Rhee, fought more challenge matches than all but a few of his contemporaries and lambasted TMAs for failing to test their concepts? The man who mocked certain CMA and JMA practitioners for failing to use anything but light contact? The man who said Gene Lebell's ring fights were excellent for telling what did and didn't work?
There is a place for calling Bruce Lee influential to RBSD thought, but I don't think you're going towards it.
Haven't heard of him. I'll look into it.
I bookmarked his page a long time ago. He has some interesting ideas, but he has no idea how trained fighters operate and is prone to making wild and unsubstantiated claims about his own capablities and experiance that seem to fantasy or little short of it. I take everything he says with a great deal of salt. Remember, too, his full time job is selling snakeoil (his supposedly superior combat system, which no one can test on him because he won't spar or enter a competition).
and Peyton Quinn to name a few.
Ok, these people SAY they have a killer system that will solve your self defense needs, or at least make you paranoid enough to buy more tapes in the hope of doing so.
What have we seen from them to indicate they have the slightest idea of what they are talking about? Heck, Marty had a point - anyone can claim to be the ultimate tough-guy streetfighter and start lecturing us all on how our systems are inferior, but if he refuses to allow us to compare head-to-head, then how are we supposed to know? Just assume based their internet advertizing?
I think your getting part of it, This whole aliveness thing is based on the assumption of one person, whos only important claim to the effects of the street are that resistance prepares you. From a guy who had been hit with a few tire irons in my day, thats a flim-flam claim.
No, the straight-blast gym's manifesto is just the most widely quoted version of the arguement.
All martial arts have effectiveness at some points, other might use partial sparring to get you to full sparring. But all the I heard was uneducated assumption based on a subjective view and misleading information. You agreed that those drills where "safety steps" (baby steps) to getting up to free sparring, yet you don't agree?
Well, the drills should get to closer and closer approximate reality (full speed, full contact, no restricted zones, freeform) as one gets more advanced. Yet, I see systems that simply add more and more drills, and never get to full speed, full contact, freeform or anywhere even remotely close. They either propose a set of memorized moves, to which more sets are simply added, or they use more repetition of a few sets without ever moving up to approximating fighting.
Let me put it this way - lets say you want to be able to swim to shore if your boat goes down without a life jacket. First, you might practice swimming motions standing up on land, then in a shallow pool, then do laps in a deep pool, and finally and up trying it in the seawater.
Most MMA people say you aren't remotely ready until you have tried to seawater - even though its not going to be the exact same as when you're further offshore. Many TMA people (or at least the harder edged ones) will say you will be ok with the deep pool. Some TMA and most RBSD people say what you need is 19 varieties of the breatstroke done on land without ever touching the pool or the sea, which would be far too dangerous.
As far as flim-flam peddlers Marc MacYoung; who trains LEOs, bouncers and allot of so-called SD experts, Peyton Quinn; who not only has appeared in BB magazine but writen books on the subject, or how about Tony Blair
Anyone can write books - its not difficult to get stuff published. Ashida Kim has 30 odd books, including ninja techniques, self defense and romance. Think its difficult?
Likewise with getting to train LEOs, military people or bouncers - largely a product of advertizing. I would be more interested to know what he can actually do rather than who someone managed to teach.
Appearing in BB magazine is indicative of popularity but nothing more - most major frauds have been in there at some point or another.
US Army (National Guard) and trains Military, Security Personel and LEOs as well?
The military uses sports training methods. Where are you goin with this?
I'm all about sparring and resistance, but if your going to make that as the sole claim to it will help you survive a street fight, come on.
Its not the only training method, but its the one closest to application and probably the most important. The other parts are supposed to hone your skills and such.
Sparring alone is not all there is to pressure testing, but it should be a good indicator of where you are.
If he would have said restance along with "these other factors" as a side note or even admitted there where other factors, I'd be fine. However, some dumb 14 year old is gonna see that and think sparring makes him a "street fighter" and he'll end up in the ER or the morge. Thats my other issue, if your gonna be realistic then be honest about it.
Well, anyone who can avoid a fight should do so; that much is a general consensus. Sparring will prepare you should a fight occur, but the best defense is still to avoid the areas and the situations.