aikido cross trainers

[Bushido151]

Most styles of Martial arts already include differant aspects of other arts, Karate has included joint locks and throws and differant styles of Aikido have incorperated strikes and kicks into there style. I started out studying Nihon Goshin Aikido, I thought it was the best style out there all the Aikido and we used alot of strikes and kicks and not just as a last resort, we used them in everyday techniques. And then my Sensei formed his own style, Nihon Goshinjutsu Aikido, It is everything I mentioned above but now we study Brazillian Juijitsu(sorry for the spelling) so I guess you can say we cross train all in one school. AIKIDOBUFF.COM

 

[Shogun]

Sensei teaches all three. I started with aikido and kenjitsu and he told me when I was ready to add kung fu.

He teaches all three? thats awesome. I wish where I went for My Japanese arts I could learn chinese techniques. Some might say that a teacher cant fully understand his/her current art if they also teach another, but they are (in my opinion) wrong. I went back and forth with someone because they said a techer could'nt teach Aikido and Bujutsu at the same school. Whatever.

 

[buddah_belly]

He started out with kung fu as a teenager, and over the years learned kenjitsu and aikido. I think it is silly to believe that you can't be proficient in more than one art.

 

[MJS]

He started out with kung fu as a teenager, and over the years learned kenjitsu and aikido. I think it is silly to believe that you can't be proficient in more than one art.

I agree! I can name quite a few people who CT. and are effective with those skills.

Dan Inosanto
Roy Harris
Chuck Norris
Larry Hartsell
Marc Denny (Dog Bros)
Myself as well as all of my Inst.

Just to name a few.

Mike

 

[Shogun]

My Aiki instructor is 8th Inheritor of Ideta Ryu Bujutsu. He also is an Aikido Instructor. So he blends his Jujutsu in his Aikido. But according to this guy I talked to, that is impossible. some people.........

 

[Yari]

The question of being proficent in one art is a question of definition.

What is the meaning of being proficient?

* To be able to show all the techniques in the art?
* To be able to us the techniques in the art?
* To be able to pick the art apart?
* To be able to understand and show new techniques that follow the same spirit as the art?

And so on......


Another problem is how do you 'know' when your proficient? How do you know you learned it 'all'.

I too believe you can cross train, the really good question is can you cross train with something that doens't obstruct your "way"?

Regards
Yari

 

[Yari]

I too believe you can cross train, the really good question is can you cross train with something that doens't obstruct your "way"?

Regards
Yari

Sometimes I write faster than I think, or I'm thinking too fast for my writting..... :uhyeah:

I meant " the really good question is; can you cross train with something that obstructs your way?"

/Yari

 

[MJS]

Sometimes I write faster than I think, or I'm thinking too fast for my writting..... :uhyeah:

I meant " the really good question is; can you cross train with something that obstructs your way?"

/Yari

Well, anything is possible. Of course, finding 2 arts that blend good together, will be your best choice, but then again, if you took something like Kenpo and then Shotokan, I could see problems happening. This is not a knock on Shotokan. I'm simply pointing out there there will be big differences between the two. But like I said in the beginning, anything is possible.

Mike

 

[Yari]

But like I said in the beginning, anything is possible.

Mike

I agree!

/Yari

 

[Bushido151]

Why is everyone harping on if two styles blend together or not? Why do they have to? At our Dojo we take half the class and train in Aikido, for stand up fighting, the other half of the class we train in BJJ for when the fight goes to the ground. We don't try to incorperate our Aikido with Bjj we just train in both.

 

[MJS]

Why is everyone harping on if two styles blend together or not? Why do they have to? At our Dojo we take half the class and train in Aikido, for stand up fighting, the other half of the class we train in BJJ for when the fight goes to the ground. We don't try to incorperate our Aikido with Bjj we just train in both.

Let me use this as an example. If you trained in an art like Kenpo for lets say 10yrs, and then made the change to a harder style such as Goju or Shotokan, the kicks, stances, and movement WILL be very different. Kenpo flows, while the other 2 are more stiff and rigid. Aikido and BJJ are not good examples to use due to the fact that they are 2 very different arts. Do you think someone would have an easy time training in the arts that I mentioned at the same time?? I dont think they would.

Mike

 

[buddah_belly]

Is it easy?

Nope

Is it possible?

Absolutely

Is it worth it?

That's a personal decision, but for me, it's the right one.

 

[Yari]

Is it worth it?

That's a personal decision, but for me, it's the right one.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I find this very interessting. Doesn't this inclince that you know the answer up front? And if you do, how can you expect to improve?

/Yari

 

[brothershaw]

The problem with cross training ( and i say this from personal experience) is
1- It cuts into the time and energy you could spend on just one art.
2- If done too soon in your martial arts training, the footwork, strikes, positions can turn into a jumble that is half one thing , half the other , and mainly incorrect. Particularly things that seem or look similiar on the surface.
3- It can really slow done your progress.
4- You may try to train styles that use the body differently.

On the plus side if you can tough it out, it does broaden your base of knowledge, and keeps you from just living in the bubble of the one school you train at, with people who do exactly what you do.

Alot of arts have alot of info in them but it takes along time to learn it all, and sometimes you dont need or want to learn it all much less have the time to devote to it all. But if you can give one art 10- 15 years and squeeze 3-5 in one or 2 other things thats not bad.
So if you do striking, aikido, judo or jujitsu might be good for throws,and locks. The fmas' for weapons.etc.

 

[buddah_belly]

First of all, and probably most important, I cross-train for different reasons than most people. I'm not trying to become some great fighter with some "complete" system of technqiues.
I cross train in kenjitsu because the moves are very similar to aikido and it helps my distance and timing. My open hand techniques are better after having done them with a bokken in my hand.
I cross train in kung fu because my instructor asked me to. He said it would be a good way for me to develop proper use of ki (whether you believe in it or not is irrelevant). I'm not learning kung fu to learn kung fu. I'm learning kung fu to learn how to use ki (chi since it's the Chinese art), which will make my aikido better.

2- If done too soon in your martial arts training, the footwork, strikes, positions can turn into a jumble that is half one thing , half the other , and mainly incorrect. Particularly things that seem or look similiar on the surface.

That's why I didn't until my instructor asked me to. He knows when I'm ready.

Doesn't this inclince that you know the answer up front? And if you do, how can you expect to improve?

That statement is based on having spent some time doing multiple arts. I think it's worth it for me. It's hard, but I've learned so much. I'm not sure I understand your question. Just because I think it's worth doing (in my case) doesn't mean I don't have tons of room for improvement. All I was saying is that it's a choice I made and it was right for me. It may not be right for everybody else and that's cool. I'm not advocating that everyone go out and do three martial arts. Yeah it's hard, but yeah it's possible, and in my case, it's worth the effort.

 

[MJS]

First of all, and probably most important, I cross-train for different reasons than most people. I'm not trying to become some great fighter with some "complete" system of technqiues.
I cross train in kenjitsu because the moves are very similar to aikido and it helps my distance and timing. My open hand techniques are better after having done them with a bokken in my hand.
I cross train in kung fu because my instructor asked me to. He said it would be a good way for me to develop proper use of ki (whether you believe in it or not is irrelevant). I'm not learning kung fu to learn kung fu. I'm learning kung fu to learn how to use ki (chi since it's the Chinese art), which will make my aikido better.

Good points. Many times by crosstraining, it can make your base art that much better. My Arnis did that for me, by making my empty hand reaction time and sensitivity much better!

That's why I didn't until my instructor asked me to. He knows when I'm ready.

My very first teacher didnt really CT on a regular basis, but he never discouraged me to do it. Definately waiting until you have a good base art is key.

That statement is based on having spent some time doing multiple arts. I think it's worth it for me. It's hard, but I've learned so much. I'm not sure I understand your question. Just because I think it's worth doing (in my case) doesn't mean I don't have tons of room for improvement. All I was saying is that it's a choice I made and it was right for me. It may not be right for everybody else and that's cool. I'm not advocating that everyone go out and do three martial arts. Yeah it's hard, but yeah it's possible, and in my case, it's worth the effort.

I agree. It was worth it for me as well. Sure, anytime you have to start over, its gonna take time, but there is nothing wrong with taking a look at the many different things that are out there.

Mike

 

[Shogun]

Some good advice I got from my Ninjutsu instructor was that I did'nt have to forget one thing to learn another, nor did I have to blend the two, I simply could learn both, and know they are two separate things. I dont have a problem with "cross-training", but as I said before, doing it because you believe your system is incomplete not only is an insult to your style, but it makes your own ignorance known. If you are doing it to better yourself however, this is very good. The greatest Martial Artists of all time did this, including Osensei Ueshiba, and everyones favorite (well, almost) bruce Lee.

 

[Bushido151]

The problem with cross training ( and i say this from personal experience) is
1- It cuts into the time and energy you could spend on just one art.
2- If done too soon in your martial arts training, the footwork, strikes, positions can turn into a jumble that is half one thing , half the other , and mainly incorrect. Particularly things that seem or look similiar on the surface.
3- It can really slow done your progress.
4- You may try to train styles that use the body differently.

I agree that if you are training just achieve rank in a certain art you should not cross train because it will take time from your primary style, but I think if your training for self defense you should use everything available to you, and that means cross training!!! I don't want this to turn into a war story post, but I have used my Aikido training in real life situations and when those punches are comming quick you do what works, you don't worry about your footwork or positions!!!

 

[MJS]

I dont have a problem with "cross-training", but as I said before, doing it because you believe your system is incomplete not only is an insult to your style, but it makes your own ignorance known. If you are doing it to better yourself however, this is very good. The greatest Martial Artists of all time did this, including Osensei Ueshiba, and everyones favorite (well, almost) bruce Lee.

While styles of martial arts all contain certain aspects of things, its important to remember that they are not complete aspects. For example, in Kenpo, there are defenses against takedowns and grabs (standing grappling) but it does not address every aspect of the ground. The same can be said for the Arnis that I also do. We have ground techs. but to think that by just taking those set techs. as being fully prepared...well, that IMO, is uneducated thinking. I do BJJ because I know that while Kenpo can address some aspects of the ground, BJJ would provide me with a better understanding of it. In addition, due to that understanding, it improves my Kenpo.

I crosstrain to make myself better. While I probably wont devote 20 yrs to every style that I train in, I can take the ideas and concepts that I have learned and apply them to every art that I train.

Mike

 

[Shogun]

While styles of martial arts all contain certain aspects of things, its important to remember that they are not complete

Ok, I see where you are coming from. To get the deepest understanding, one may practice an art, that may be strictly for that area. The thing I liked when UFC first started, was that almost everyone had a pure style. then BJJ dominated, and everyone started cross training. I understand that most martial arts are not complete in certain areas, but that does'nt mean they are not complete systems. they would not be around if they were incomplete. they were designed for a purpose, and if people still practice them, they serve their purpose. thats all I'm saying. to understand everything, I guess it would be best to study anything offered to you. I study (primarly) Classical Japanese jujutsu. but on top of that, I understand it may not be best for today. however, it has taught me a lot when it comes to body movement, geometry, and physical application of technique. I always say this, but ring sports and street fights, while differerent, have one thing in common, once they start, there is no time for fancy technique, for all martial arts convert back to the basics of the system. simple as that. As Fumio Demura says, If you have good basics, you will succeed in anything you do. I dont cross train in order to be "complete", I simply study other arts to see what they have to offer. you know, for fun.