Aikido against a boxer

[Tez3]

I'll ignore for the moment that this thread is 12 years old.

I have some close friends who are into Aikido since they were kids.

'Into' Aikido or actually train it?

They always end up giving up during the fight. Al

Your friends aren't representative of Akidoka in general. What they are demonstrating is their lack of skill not your superiority.

The problem with Aikido practioners is that they're not used to dealing with people who know how to punch really good!

How do you actually know that?

One great quality of a boxer is that we already have a plan before we step into the ring and we study our opponents from start to the end of the fight.

Yeah everyone has a plan until the battle starts. You can't generalise boxers anymore than you can anyone else. Boxers have tactics for fights where their opponent is chosen and they've has a chance to study how they fight. Boxers tend to be no better than anyone else when attacked randomly by people they don't know.

Welcome to MT by the way.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah everyone has a plan until the battle starts. You can't generalise boxers anymore than you can anyone else. Boxers have tactics for fights where their opponent is chosen and they've has a chance to study how they fight. Boxers tend to be no better than anyone else when attacked randomly by people they don't know.

Welcome to MT by the way.

Wasn't he an ammy boxer
Because they fight randoms all the time. Look up a golden gloves.

 

[Tez3]

Because they fight ransoms all the time

Pretty sure ammies don't get purses or ransoms..............


Boxers fighting boxers isn't random because of the rules and refs, boxers defending themselves against attackers is random.

 

[drop bear]

Pretty sure ammies don't get purses or ransoms..............


Boxers fighting boxers isn't random because of the rules and refs, boxers defending themselves against attackers is random.

Against an unknown person. Ammies do that all the time.

Last weekend one of our ammies fought a guy from the crowd.

 

[jasonriverajasonrivera]

'Into' Aikido or actually train it?

I pretty much say they train 'cause they go to their dojo thing like everyday. Well that's what they say.

How do you actually know that?

Well there's 3 of them (one on one of course. Not me against 3). All of them are trying to test their skills against someone with different form of combat sports.
I just play them around using successive quick jobs. Whenever I see them planning to do the wrist lock thing I just simply feint with my right then they go into covering their faces. As they do that I'd be out of the pocket.

Your friends aren't representative of Akidoka in general. What they are demonstrating is their lack of skill not your superiority.

They definitely lack any fighting skills I agree.

Aikido may be effective if they can grab their opponent. But how are you going to deal with someone who has the stamina to fight for long hours? Someone who can circle around you, moving from side to side, jump in and out in short burst. How can you deal with someone who can keep on feinting and throw combinations of punches that's faster than a blink of the eye. Punches that even a jab can know you out. And the moment you realized you've been hit, they'd be out of your range laughing at you. How can you deal to fight someone like that if you're too afraid to even get hit with a light jabs.

Just watch Manny Pacquiao in his prime and see how he throws powerful combinations. The moment his opponents recover he'd be behind them waiting. You can also watch Amir Khan's lightning handspeed. If you can handle these guys then you got our respect.

 

[macher]

I'll ignore for the moment that this thread is 12 years old.



'Into' Aikido or actually train it?




Your friends aren't representative of Akidoka in general. What they are demonstrating is their lack of skill not your superiority.



How do you actually know that?



Yeah everyone has a plan until the battle starts. You can't generalise boxers anymore than you can anyone else. Boxers have tactics for fights where their opponent is chosen and they've has a chance to study how they fight. Boxers tend to be no better than anyone else when attacked randomly by people they don't know.

Welcome to MT by the way.

Yep everyone has a plan until they get rocked. The difference with a boxer though is boxers spar often and get hit.

 

[Tez3]

Last weekend one of our ammies fought a guy from the crowd.

That was incredibly stupid.

I pretty much say they train 'cause they go to their dojo thing like everyday. Well that's what they say.

'Dojo thing'

I'm not defending Aikido I don't know enough but it's clear I know more than you. To judge any style ( or anything really) just from something a couple of mates do is a very quick way to be proved wrong.

Yep everyone has a plan until they get rocked. The difference with a boxer though is boxers spar often and get hit.

That doesn't prove however that an Aikidoka couldn't defend themselves against a boxer.

It's all very nebulous.

 

[drop bear]

That was incredibly stupid.

Not according to our trainers who are kind of the experts here.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm a amateur boxer and I have some close friends who are into Aikido since they were kids.
We always spar when they visit me at my home. I totally respect their dedication but I must say, it will never work against a boxers who have been in the ring.
They always end up giving up during the fight. All I use against them are quick jobs while circling around. I have a fairly long reach so I don't really have a problem hitting them.
The problem with Aikido practioners is that they're not used to dealing with people who know how to punch really good! They tend to over react even to a very simple feint. This shows that they are very afraid of getting hit.
And this is usually where my friends end up eating the leather.
One great quality of a boxer is that we already have a plan before we step into the ring and we study our opponents from start to the end of the fight.
After few hits to their faces their eyes are teary and that's one indication they are already feeling those leather.

It depends how it is taught. I'd tend to agree that someone trying to do much of what I call "dojo Aikido" (stuff that's for flow work, part of the experience, but not directly practical IMO) is likely to get flattened by a good striker. It'd be like you trying to use your speed bag work as direct application in a match. Some schools/branches of Aikido seem to work almost exclusively on dojo Aikido - not an issue if you just want to learn Aikido and have the experience and fun of it. But it's not going to work well (again, just my opinion) against a competent striker like a trained boxer.

Take Aikido and add a striking foundation (including sparring, preferably some of which is striking-only), and the story changes a bit, because you get accustomed to dealing with real punches (instead of the stylized non-punches often used as training tools in Aikido, or weak/bad punches used in a lot of self-defense training approaches).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That was incredibly stupid.

How so?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Whenever I see them planning to do the wrist lock thing I just simply feint with my right then they go into covering their faces. As they do that I'd be out of the pocket.

Here's another issue for the way they've trained - you're seeing them planning for a wrist technique. Interestingly, that's pretty counter to most of what Aikido instructors seem to teach (they're supposed to use what you give, rather than manufacturing a technique).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Aikido may be effective if they can grab their opponent. But how are you going to deal with someone who has the stamina to fight for long hours? Someone who can circle around you, moving from side to side, jump in and out in short burst. How can you deal with someone who can keep on feinting and throw combinations of punches that's faster than a blink of the eye. Punches that even a jab can know you out. And the moment you realized you've been hit, they'd be out of your range laughing at you. How can you deal to fight someone like that if you're too afraid to even get hit with a light jabs.

Nobody is invincible. Other boxers deal with those combinations. Pure grapplers in MMA dealt with those combinations (early MMA, before the boxers also started training grappling). The issue is that those students haven't trained how to handle a competent striker. It's entirely possible to take down a competent striker - but you have to know how to deal with the strikes to get to that.

 

[pgsmith]

Nobody is invincible. Other boxers deal with those combinations. Pure grapplers in MMA dealt with those combinations (early MMA, before the boxers also started training grappling). The issue is that those students haven't trained how to handle a competent striker. It's entirely possible to take down a competent striker - but you have to know how to deal with the strikes to get to that.

That reminds me of how my boxing career got short circuited. When I was in the Army, I worked with a guy that was a former gold glove champion from Arizona. He kept telling me he would teach me how to box, so I relented and started going to the gym with him. It all went well until I got good enough that we started sparring a bit more seriously. He would eventually tag me hard, and my instincts from my younger days in a bad neighborhood would kick in and I'd kick him between the legs and jump on him to grapple and throw him on the ground. Every time he would tag me hard I would go into automatic and do something similar. He finally said he flat out wasn't going to work with me any more.

 

[Tez3]

How so?

Fighting complete strangers out of the crowd? do you have to ask? What weight ? what experience? And amateur boxers fighting some stranger out of the crowd, really? i mean what could go wrong?

 

[Tez3]

Not according to our trainers who are kind of the experts here.

Trainers in what, letting ammies get beaten up by random strangers?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That reminds me of how my boxing career got short circuited. When I was in the Army, I worked with a guy that was a former gold glove champion from Arizona. He kept telling me he would teach me how to box, so I relented and started going to the gym with him. It all went well until I got good enough that we started sparring a bit more seriously. He would eventually tag me hard, and my instincts from my younger days in a bad neighborhood would kick in and I'd kick him between the legs and jump on him to grapple and throw him on the ground. Every time he would tag me hard I would go into automatic and do something similar. He finally said he flat out wasn't going to work with me any more.

I can't say I blame him. Vary your response, man - you're getting predictable!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Fighting complete strangers out of the crowd? do you have to ask? What weight ? what experience? And amateur boxers fighting some stranger out of the crowd, really? i mean what could go wrong?

It's boxing. Something can always go wrong. Trained fighters do stupid things sometimes in the ring. I'd assume a person from the stands is a bit less predictable (not trained in the rules, etc.), but they're probably not going to go completely nuts.

 

[drop bear]

It's boxing. Something can always go wrong. Trained fighters do stupid things sometimes in the ring. I'd assume a person from the stands is a bit less predictable (not trained in the rules, etc.), but they're probably not going to go completely nuts.

It is also ammy boxing. The only people in the crowd are other fighters.

Have you watched a golden gloves?

Neither has anyone else.

 

[drop bear]

Trainers in what, letting ammies get beaten up by random strangers?

When you have traveled 300k to fight and the other guy disappears. You find a fight.

Boxing is notorious for flexible weight classes and random strangers.

It is just part of it.

 

[Tez3]

It's boxing. Something can always go wrong. Trained fighters do stupid things sometimes in the ring. I'd assume a person from the stands is a bit less predictable (not trained in the rules, etc.), but they're probably not going to go completely nuts.

You are a very trusting person.

It's not about being predictable, not sure where that came from, how about quite a few pounds heavier, even a stone or two ( a stone is 14lbs btw), what about being far more experienced than a young amateur boxer, what about being bigger and stronger than a young amateur boxer? It reeks of those old fairground fights, where lads are challenged to get in the ring with a boxer, they win money if they beat him which of course they never do.
If someone is reckless enough to allow a stranger from the crowd to box his fighters, what does it say about his integrity. For sure though taking part in unlicensed fights which this would be is a very quick career ender even an amateur one. It's a quick way not to get licensed for amateur and pro fights, so no use thinking about the Olympics, Commonwealth Games, world champs etc etc. You'd be banned from taking part and any good coach would know that, sure do it for fun if you like taking risks but limiting your fighters amateur chances?

Oh and you'd better hope that if you cut that opponent he doesn't bleed all over you if you have cuts or grazes etc.