Advanced Techniques

[ShortBridge]

Something that I started saying a few years ago and I finally wrote down (on a chalkboard at my kwoon):

Advanced Techniques are:
1) Difficult -or-
2) Dangerous (to you) -or-
3) Dangerous (to someone else) -or-
4) Break some of the rules or defy some of the system's basic/intermediate principles -or-
5) Some combination of the above

So, it stands to reason, based on #4 that advanced techniques in one system could be beginner or intermediate techniques in another system. If you are a free-form, collector-of-techniques-as-a-style type of practitioner, I don't think this applies to you.

For the rest of you, regardless of what system you teach or train in, what are your thoughts?

 

[wckf92]

Advanced techniques are the basics mastered...

 

[Martial D]

Advanced techniques are the ones you can land regularly, without getting creamed yourself.

It's not the quality of the knife that makes the chef and all that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Advanced techniques are the ones you can land regularly, without getting creamed yourself.

It's not the quality of the knife that makes the chef and all that.

That seems like a definition of foundational techniques, or go-to techniques, or reliable techniques. What makes them more advanced?

 

[yak sao]

Break some of the rules or defy some of the system's basic/intermediate principles

Reminds me of the saying, " the young man knows the rules, the old man knows the exceptions".

I don't think it's as much advanced techniques, as it is advanced technique.

The movements, or techniques of wing chun are all laid out in front of us almost from the beginning.
What sets the advanced practitioner apart from the novice is not because the advanced practitioner is doing some technique not yet learned,by the novice, but he has better technique, that is, the way he performs the movement, not the movement itself.

 

[Highlander]

Advanced techniques are the basics mastered...

You beat me to it.... oh well I'm still gonna say it lol.
There are no advanced techniques, just basics applied at an advanced level.




Seems like we all actually agree for once

 

[Martial D]

That seems like a definition of foundational techniques, or go-to techniques, or reliable techniques. What makes them more advanced?

Because they work. The most 'advanced' you can be is synonymous with the most functional you can be.

 

[yak sao]

Seems like we all actually agree for once

Well, that sucks. Quick, someone say something controversial...I would, but I'm a lover not a fighter.

 

[drop bear]

Well, that sucks. Quick, someone say something controversial...I would, but I'm a lover not a fighter.

Ok. Fine.

The most advanced move is one that takes in to account the most pieces of the puzzle.

So this requires a lot of things to have happened.

 

[Highlander]

Ok. Fine.

The most advanced move is one that takes in to account the most pieces of the puzzle.

So this requires a lot of things to have happened.

Very basic move applied on an extremely high level.

 

[wckf92]

Something else to keep in mind are advanced "attributes" that are integral to advanced techniques. Things like speed, timing, rhythm, agility, eye/hand/brain coordination, conditioning, etc etc etc

 

[drop bear]

Very basic move applied on an extremely high level.

No a basic move could be applied on a guy standing there doing nothing. It has one layer.

An advanced move takes more components and therefore more training time to accomplish.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Because they work. The most 'advanced' you can be is synonymous with the most functional you can be.

Interesting take. In all the discussions of advanced techniques, I've never heard the term used that way before.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok. Fine.

The most advanced move is one that takes in to account the most pieces of the puzzle.

So this requires a lot of things to have happened.

Nice. (And, yes, to answer the question in the title of the video.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Something else to keep in mind are advanced "attributes" that are integral to advanced techniques. Things like speed, timing, rhythm, agility, eye/hand/brain coordination, conditioning, etc etc etc

To me, that's really what defines a technique as advanced - it requires more of those attributes (perhaps a high level of one or more, or no gaps at a moderate level). A basic technique is something that works reasonably well with a lower total of those attributes.

 

[Highlander]

No a basic move could be applied on a guy standing there doing nothing. It has one layer.

An advanced move takes more components and therefore more training time to accomplish.

He definitely just pulls the guys arm down and across while taking a side step.
He just does it with great timing.

 

[Highlander]

Because they work. The most 'advanced' you can be is synonymous with the most functional you can be.

I agree.. it's easy to confuse 'advanced' with 'complexity'. Which, to be fair, in some cases they run hand and hand.

 

[Martial D]

Interesting take. In all the discussions of advanced techniques, I've never heard the term used that way before.

If my timing, speed, power and awareness were so high that I could defeat anyone and everyone, without fail, with a single straight punch, would I not be more advanced as a fighter than everyone else? Would this kill button of a strike not be the most advanced combat technique?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If my timing, speed, power and awareness were so high that I could defeat anyone and everyone, without fail, with a single straight punch, would I not be more advanced as a fighter than everyone else? Would this kill button of a strike not be the most advanced combat technique?

Okay, but that seems like a description of an advanced puncher, not an advanced technique. In that case, it's you (with all your advanced attributes) that is advanced.

 

[Martial D]

Okay, but that seems like a description of an advanced puncher, not an advanced technique. In that case, it's you (with all your advanced attributes) that is advanced.

What's the difference? A technique is only as good as the person doing it can do it, which is reliant on a person's attributes.

Tell me, what good is complexity if it doesn't or cant accomplish anything?

Is not the most advanced thing also the most effective thing? If it isn't, then advancing past it to something less effective isn't really advancement..it's regression.