about breakfalks

[Gerry Seymour]

This is the problem for "sport". If you slap on the mat, it's very clear that you have admitted that your opponent have just thrown you. If you don't and use that slapping arm to drag your opponent down to the ground, it may sound like both of you lose balance together.

This is why it's very difficult to see a "clean throw" in tournament. No matter how perfect your throw may be, your opponent will try to drag you down.

I think the bigger issue with "clean throws" in competition is that the opponent knows them, too. There's a reason MMA doesn't see most of the throws found in traditional arts. Many of those throws are hard to pull off on someone who knows them well, especially if they have a chance to watch you (or video of you) and see what throws you like. A single-leg is less efficient (from the standpoint of energy usage), but the mechanics in it aren't as easily countered, even by an experienced practitioner.

 

[Spinedoc]

I'm kind of surprised this is even a discussion....Look, to the OP, if you are training in ANY martial art that has throws, and you are not learning ukemi or how to receive and to fall properly, then you are not properly training. I tell Aikido students all the time, one of the biggest limiters in Aikido and what will affect your progress is your ukemi. Learning techniques is one thing, but if you aren't able to take more advanced ukemi, than you cannot practice more advanced techniques. Ukemi even teaches you about throwing, if you are paying attention. I always tell people...pay attention when you are being thrown, where is your kuzushi, where are you losing it, what is the point of no return, and then how are you falling, etc.etc.etc. It sounds like your instructor never learned to fall properly, which is why he is telling you what he is....Since you brought it up here, I cannot disagree more with his notions.

 

[JP3]

KungFu Wang, that muscle in the back is far from being the strongest muscle in the body.

The notables in the "strongest muscle" category are: the eye muscles which operate directional control of the eye, the masseter muscle which closes the jaw, the gluteus maximus which holds us erect and allows for upright mobility along with the soleus (underbelly calf muscle. Oh, and there's the tongue and uterus but I don't have one of the latter so wouldn't know.

I completely agree with SpineDoc, there is actually more "learning" which takes place while a person is in the role of uke, if you are paying attention.

Agree with Gerry as wekll, the other guy knowing all the throws doesn't necessarily mean one guy won't throw another, but it sure muddies the water. It's way hard to get one of the big, pretty big throws off on someone who knows the setups.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

KungFu Wang, that muscle in the back is far from being the strongest muscle in the body.

Strong in the sense that you can let your opponent to kick it, punch it, and you won't feel much. The "deltoid muscle" can take a lot of abuse, that's why you use it for "break fall".

 

[frank raud]

Not ten minutes ago, I put my breakfall training to the test, as I slipped and wiped out on the ice in my driveway. Got back up with nary a scratch or a strain.

 

[JP3]

Strong in the sense that you can let your opponent to kick it, punch it, and you won't feel much. The "deltoid muscle" can take a lot of abuse, that's why you use it for "break fall".

The deltoid? Wang, those three muscles in the deltoid group (anterior, posterior and lateral) aren't big at all.... are you sure you're not thinking of the latissimus dorsi? Average delt mass is only abut a 1/3 lb. The lat (latissimus dorsi), in comparison, is that huge sweeping mass of muscle which spans the entire upper back.

I keep my students from getting anywhere near the deltoid when falling (if they can), as landing "on" the shoulder joint itself is a recipe for injury. Going around and over that joint is preferable, IMO.

I agree with you that, back in my Muay Thai days (maybe I should have said Muay Thai daze?), I'd use the upper arms and delts as part of the blocking structure for almost all strikes, including kicks, coming in at upper torso and head as that side hand could immediately strike after the opponent's strike was absorbed.

But not breakfalls, no.

 

[Buka]

Not ten minutes ago, I put my breakfall training to the test, as I slipped and wiped out on the ice in my driveway. Got back up with nary a scratch or a strain.

So true. So often.

That second after you land, and just as you are about to get up - "yeah, I meant to do that." (Oh, thank you, Jesus.)

 

[Langenschwert]

Not ten minutes ago, I put my breakfall training to the test, as I slipped and wiped out on the ice in my driveway. Got back up with nary a scratch or a strain.

Yup. Breakfalls have saved me on ice too. You're far more likely to fall down going about your business than be attacked. I always tell my students that breakfalling is the most practical martial arts skill they'll ever learn. I don't think they believe me at first, until the first snowfall hits. Then one of them usually comes to class with a good breakfall story. Students who do a lot of cycling also have come back with good breakfall stories.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yup. Breakfalls have saved me on ice too. You're far more likely to fall down going about your business than be attacked. I always tell my students that breakfalling is the most practical martial arts skill they'll ever learn. I don't think they believe me at first, until the first snowfall hits. Then one of them usually comes to class with a good breakfall story. Students who do a lot of cycling also have come back with good breakfall stories.

I've never actually pulled a breakfall in everyday life. I think that's because the balance work and staying centered and being aware of center has made me much better at not falling down. The few times I have fallen, my hands stayed out of the way (the result of breakfall practice, no doubt), but a normal breakfall wasn't available because of the situation (against an object, on stairs, running madly down a slope after being tricked by a ninja spider name Inigo, etc.).

 

[Langenschwert]

I've never actually pulled a breakfall in everyday life. I think that's because the balance work and staying centered and being aware of center has made me much better at not falling down. The few times I have fallen, my hands stayed out of the way (the result of breakfall practice, no doubt), but a normal breakfall wasn't available because of the situation (against an object, on stairs, running madly down a slope after being tricked by a ninja spider name Inigo, etc.).

When a new student starts, they often take a little while to get good at breakfalls. I tell them "when in doubt, just look at your belt buckle (i.e. tuck the chin) and keep your arms from posting". That way they at least retain something useful that can be applied easily.