A Study on Distance Learning VS Dojo Learning

[marshallbd]

What are the pros and cons of it?

I was interested in the IKCA videos a while back. I dont practice Kempo/kenpo locally though, so I decided against it.

Regards,
Shogun

So do you use any home study training yourself at all? I see the Tushkahoma in your list of styles you study....Adrian Roman's stuff right?

 

[Aegis]

As the saying goes, "any training is better than no training".

Unless they are training wrong and pick up hundreds of bad habits that then need to be removed before training in a dojo can REALLY start. I made the mistake of trying to do some swordwork before starting real training, but fortunately I didn't pick up too much that couldn't be removed (I only tried out a coupld of things from a book once or twice). Had I continued to train as I had been, I would have had a ridiculously hard time just getting to the point where I could start learning productively again.

 

[marshallbd]

Unless they are training wrong and pick up hundreds of bad habits that then need to be removed before training in a dojo can REALLY start. I made the mistake of trying to do some swordwork before starting real training, but fortunately I didn't pick up too much that couldn't be removed (I only tried out a coupld of things from a book once or twice). Had I continued to train as I had been, I would have had a ridiculously hard time just getting to the point where I could start learning productively again.

True, but do you think learning from a book and learning from a video where you can see the movement are the same? The book might have pictures but they are static and dont accurately convey the movement like video can.

 

[The Kai]

Even Video has its limits. I've had students come in who had allready explored video learning. They decided to get serious and come in for lessons! Video learning is reaaly just a way to make$$.

 

[marshallbd]

Even Video has its limits. I've had students come in who had allready explored video learning. They decided to get serious and come in for lessons! Video learning is reaaly just a way to make$$.

And what art do you teach? Just Curious

 

[Mark Weiser]

There is nothing wrong with making money in the MA. I only can share from my experiences. The IKCA has a great program. Be around for awhile

 

[The Kai]

I teach Kenpo

 

[Enson]

i believe... if you have continues feedback and communication with your school/instructor/s then video learning can be great. i do believe that video testing is a must as well as having an accesible teacher/instructor.

as far as making money...? well how much are they really making? you can get far more from charging a student $50-$150 a month for training in a dojo than the entire video cirriculum (sp) cost. so much more overhead. those that have ever owned a business will know what i'm talking about. so in a sense you could really drag out someone's training and have them at white belt for years just to get their money.

i do believe that for one to get real good training when in distance learning they should most defenitly have a training partner, or multiple training partners.

in our dojo tew sensei does offer the hsp program. but since its his name on the line he takes great care and pride in each one of his students. he thoroughly reviews their test over and over again noting/documenting everything thats right and wrong. then he sends them a report of pass or fail and what they did well/wrong. also tells them how to improve and different ways to achieve their goals.

from what i've seen i think distance learning can be very effective! the hsp students in our dojo are something to be proud of.

 

[sifu nick]

I like the idea of using video footage for advanced students or watching tapes of upcoming opponents but I feel beginners need the hands on approach especially with moves such as joint locks or pressure point type maneuvers which need to be more precise than say a punch or kick.

 

[Mark Weiser]

Well again it all depends on several factors concerning funds.

1. I know Instructors that sell entire system of MA for as little as $79 but if you look at the testing cost of say $150 for each belt up to brown then the fees goes up to $200 each level of brown. Then the fee jumps up to $300 for black belt. Other systems charge a higher fee for the course and lessen the belt testing fee.
Yellow= 150
Orange = 150
Purple = 150
Blue = 150
Green = 150
1st Brown = 200
2nd Brown = 200
3rd Brown = 200
1st Dan/Black = 300 each x 7 Black Degrees --- 2100
System Cost = 79
Total = $3429 Not including cost of blank tapes, uniforms, weapon purchases, shoes, training equipment

I said all of this Distance learning students are very serious Martial Artist very dedicated to invest time, energy, fiscal resources,just as a Student who happens to have an Instructor avaialable to them, cheapens their experiences by stating they are not equal to a Dojo student is unfair and at times arrogant on the part of other Martial Artist.

Honestly a distance trained student takes more dedication due to not having someone(Instructor) pushing them to practice or to take any testing.

 

[Enson]

i'm going to have to agree with that!

it also depends on the level of instruction/instructor. i would rather do a distance course from bruce lee than have one on one with one of his students. this way you don't have to travel across the world to train with the masters... when they come to your house whenever you want. will an owner of a school/dojo wake up after your graveyard shift to go open the dojo for you and give you a private lesson? no, and if you called him he'd probably have you arrested.

i'm all for it, but the integrity/skill/care/help has to be there. if its not then you could get yourself into alot of trouble with habits/hangups/pain. i'm not one for you getting your bb for nothing. i believe that even the distance students should work just as hard for their bb. and in the final test... they should probably test in person. thats just my opinion.

there should be no knocking of the distance martial artist. i commend them for their efforts in not settleing for just anything their town has to offer, or not being satisfied with traveling once a year/month to go get instruction.
peace

 

[Shogun]

So do you use any home study training yourself at all? I see the Tushkahoma in your list of styles you study....Adrian Roman's stuff right?

Right. I do study the courses I posted (see page 1) along with my Dojo training. There is countless ways to argue that they do or dont work. instead of arguing whether or not they work, why not just argue whether or not they work for you?

As far as test fees are concerned, I have seen courses costing as much as Mark Weiser posted. But then again, I have seen courses for $100, and that covers everything. I study all the courses I posted, and have positive and negative things to say about both. If anyone needs additional info about any of them (see page 1) I can give it to ya.

Honestly a distance trained student takes more dedication due to not having someone(Instructor) pushing them to practice or to take any testing.

Good point. A video student will dedicate themself, and also study hard to get the skills necessary. a video student might face ridicule so they have to be able to back up their claims.
I love that we have the option to video study. I regularly attend dojos, but when I go home, I can practice MA with myself or a friend, and then go back to the dojo more experienced.

Cheers.

KE

 

[marshallbd]

Tushka-Homa and American Kenpo By Adrian Roman
Adrian Roman is a full blooded Choctaw. He has taken real Native american techniques, and synthesized them with recreated techniques. He is recognized founder of Tushkahoma, the red warrior system. He is also ranked under SGM Ed Parker as an 8th Dan in American Kenpo.
Pros:
-High quality video
-Personally responds to all calls and emails.
-Roman is 8th grade BB under SGM Ed Parker
-Native american arts offered
-extended rank courses available
-feedback and customer service 24 hours a day
cons:
-Video testing not required (although available)
-rank Certificate with order (more of an insurance policy, but still.....)
-Costly ($800-$1000 for first course, additional courses $2000)



Will post more

cheers,
KE

Just for informational purposes, Mr Roman is now selling both his AK and his Red warrior black belt programs on EBay. They are averaging $150 - $250 each at the end of the auction. MUCH cheaper than he advertises on his website! Startin bid is $125 -$150 depending on his mood when he posts it there I guess... :asian:

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I absolutely love the level of all you guys' commitment, that you would spend so much time and energy trying to absorb what you can, from where you can. I STILL post my flag in the camp that video training -- and pretty much anything by Mr. Roman -- is completely useless. There are subtleties of information transmission that can only be accomplished in person. I extend this invitation to the commited few in the event you are ever down this way and would like to train:

It pains me so much to see all'yall investing so much time, energy and money into this medium of learning, that I will provide you with free instruction for as long as you like, insofar as time and proxemics will permit. In person, because video training in MA is like taste-testing fine wines over a TV...so many channels of data are absent, that the experience -- and hence the knowledge -- can't help but be incomplete.

I am in Hollywood now, with parks nearby. I am opening a practice with a small floor area for rehab in Pasadena, and (temporarily, at least) have access to about a 500 s/f space in Van Nuys. PM me if you expect to be down this way and would like a warm body to train with/learn from/do some clean-up. I only conduct privates and semi-privates to maintain better attention to detail/quality interactions, and am generally selective about whom I train. I've not met any of you, but if you aren't a convicted felon, sexual predator, or completely lame, I would enjoy the opportunity to supplement your training journey with more real-time, and less MTV.

Regards,

Dr. Dave Crouch, DC

 

[marshallbd]

I absolutely love the level of all you guys' commitment, that you would spend so much time and energy trying to absorb what you can, from where you can. I STILL post my flag in the camp that video training -- and pretty much anything by Mr. Roman -- is completely useless. There are subtleties of information transmission that can only be accomplished in person. I extend this invitation to the commited few in the event you are ever down this way and would like to train:

It pains me so much to see all'yall investing so much time, energy and money into this medium of learning, that I will provide you with free instruction for as long as you like, insofar as time and proxemics will permit. In person, because video training in MA is like taste-testing fine wines over a TV...so many channels of data are absent, that the experience -- and hence the knowledge -- can't help but be incomplete.

I am in Hollywood now, with parks nearby. I am opening a practice with a small floor area for rehab in Pasadena, and (temporarily, at least) have access to about a 500 s/f space in Van Nuys. PM me if you expect to be down this way and would like a warm body to train with/learn from/do some clean-up. I only conduct privates and semi-privates to maintain better attention to detail/quality interactions, and am generally selective about whom I train. I've not met any of you, but if you aren't a convicted felon, sexual predator, or completely lame, I would enjoy the opportunity to supplement your training journey with more real-time, and less MTV.

Regards,

Dr. Dave Crouch, DC

Dr Dave,
I can't believe how generous that offer is. I want to thank you from deep down for making it. I dont get out to California too often but if I am ever down that way, I'll be sure to call and take the time to let you mop the floor with me and then have an adjustment after training. Then I'll buy you a "cup o Joe" and soak up what knowledge you wish to share.

Thanks again for the generous offer!

Beau

 

[Shogun]

It is really sad how Mr Roman has leaned so much toward commercialization. He is a good man, but ......well, who posts their MA on Ebay?

Good training,
KE