A Discussion on Fear

[evenflow1121]

I dont think its good to be fearless, I believe that fear is a necessary evil. For example, the fear of what you may do to someone due to your training if you lose control in a fight. Or the fear of certain legal consequences you may have if you to too far in a fight. Fear can be a great ally that can keep you out of trouble. Of course fear can also be a great detriment, but I think balance is important, in some instances fear can be a good thing, in others it can be an impediment, to be completely fearless, is in my opinion to be very careless as well.

 

[Steel Tiger]

In some of the things that I read regarding fear there was a lot of talk about "healthy" fear and "unhealthy" fear which some of you mentioned. "Healthy" fear was described as being a completely natural emotion that helps you recognize and respond to dangerous situations and threats. "Unhealthy" fear was described as being paranoid, and overly cautious. Where fear has become an insurmountable obstacle.

One of the arguments for someone striving to become fearless was the theory that you can not be a successful fighter if you allow fear (or any emotion) to surface. But you must have a clear mind in order to fight intelligently.

I think it is easy to say you should fight in this manner within a controlled environment (ie sparring) and that this mindset, although noble, isn't suited for self-defense situations. I feel like you would be relying on those very emotions (controlling them) to battle your way to victory.

- ft

This is the situation Earle Montague has referred to as unleashing the reptile brain.

In sparring and other controlled situations we use our conscious mind to fight knowing that both we and our opponent must operate within a given set of rules. In such a case the number of things that can be done in finite and thus we can come to terms with them.

In a situation where you are fighting for your survival it is not uncommon to stop 'thinking' and just let what happens happen. This is the reptile brain, that ugly semi-subconscious part of brain that will do what is necessary to protect the body.

 

[funnytiger]

This is the situation Earle Montague has referred to as unleashing the reptile brain.

In sparring and other controlled situations we use our conscious mind to fight knowing that both we and our opponent must operate within a given set of rules. In such a case the number of things that can be done in finite and thus we can come to terms with them.

In a situation where you are fighting for your survival it is not uncommon to stop 'thinking' and just let what happens happen. This is the reptile brain, that ugly semi-subconscious part of brain that will do what is necessary to protect the body.

Hm, interesting. So is the reptile brain a positve or negative thing?

 

[Steel Tiger]

Hm, interesting. So is the reptile brain a positve or negative thing?

To be honest, I don't really know. Earle seems to sell it as a positive but he is not training people for competition when he discusses it.

Personally, it scares me a little to think that something that destructive and unfeeling is lurking inside waiting for the chance to 'protect' me.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hm, interesting. So is the reptile brain a positve or negative thing?

Neither it's just a brain that helps a reptile survive, doubtful a reptile thinks it is either positive or negative.


And doesn't Earle also claim lineage to Yang Luchan and not Chengfu?

 

[Rook]

Neither it's just a brain that helps a reptile survive, doubtful a reptile thinks it is either positive or negative.

Exactly. Its just a pop psyc term for the lowest of the popular types of thought.

And doesn't Earle also claim lineage to Yang Luchan and not Chengfu?

Earle's claims don't seem to be particularly consistant. However, they are sufficiently implausable that I discount him as a source and doubt the judgement of people who cite him.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Exactly. Its just a pop psyc term for the lowest of the popular types of thought.



Earle's claims don't seem to be particularly consistant. However, they are sufficiently implausable that I discount him as a source and doubt the judgement of people who cite him.

I have to agree with you about Earle. I went to a seminar he presented and he went on about the reptile brain, so I thought I would share what he said.

It was a bagua seminar and he simply dismissed out of hand any school of bagua that did not descend from the classical school founded by Dong Hai Quan. Very disturbing for my teacher and I as our school does not follow that particular path

 

[Rook]

I have to agree with you about Earle. I went to a seminar he presented and he went on about the reptile brain, so I thought I would share what he said.

Fair enough. Its a good enough analogy.

It was a bagua seminar and he simply dismissed out of hand any school of bagua that did not descend from the classical school founded by Dong Hai Quan. Very disturbing for my teacher and I as our school does not follow that particular path

Out of curiosity, how does your lineage work?

 

[Steel Tiger]

Now, this is a tough question. My teacher learnt from an old man working as, of all things, an exorcist in the city of Wollongong in NSW. Chan Lao Shih said the style was developed at a monastery devoted to the Hsuan Hsu sect of Daoism in Siquan.

The monastery was destroyed during the Cultural Revolution, and I think that might be why Chan Lao Shih moved to Australia.

Our bagua is not like the classical style and seems to have more in common with the Emei school, which makes sense as Emei mountain is in Siquan.

It is a great disappoinment to me as a trained archaeologist and historian that we cannot trace the ancestry any further than the monastery.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Earle's claims don't seem to be particularly consistant. However, they are sufficiently implausable that I discount him as a source and doubt the judgement of people who cite him.

One of the claims I read did not exactly say he was a student of Luchan but it did hint at it. This of course would make Earle around 150 years old.

Yang Luchan 1800-1873

 

[Xue Sheng]

Now, this is a tough question. My teacher learnt from an old man working as, of all things, an exorcist in the city of Wollongong in NSW. Chan Lao Shih said the style was developed at a monastery devoted to the Hsuan Hsu sect of Daoism in Siquan.

The monastery was destroyed during the Cultural Revolution, and I think that might be why Chan Lao Shih moved to Australia.

Our bagua is not like the classical style and seems to have more in common with the Emei school, which makes sense as Emei mountain is in Siquan.

It is a great disappoinment to me as a trained archaeologist and historian that we cannot trace the ancestry any further than the monastery.

This I find intersting, let me look into this and see if I can find anything. Have you tried looking using the pinyin insted of the Wade Giles spelling?

 

[Laurentkd]

Fear is not the thing that you need to control. It is essential to prepping your body for what lay ahead. The part that is in need of control is the fight or flight adrenalin rush that you get. If you can control how your body reacts to the adrenaline you will have success in "controlling" fear. My $0.02 worth.

great post searcher! I totally agree, you said what exactly I was trying to say.

 

[funnytiger]

However, they are sufficiently implausable that I discount him as a source and doubt the judgement of people who cite him.

I'm sorry, but was that last statement completely necessary?

Geez...

 

[funnytiger]

Is it possible to sense danger without fear? Is fear essential to being able to identify certain situations or is it just a side effect?

I posted this before but it probably got lost in the ramblings of my post.

 

[JBrainard]

Going back in the thread a little bit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kachi
Most people seem to be in agreement about 'controlling their fear'... But I've had cases (2 cases I recall) where I've frozen and my mind has basically gone blank, which I would credit to an adrenaline rush like searcher described. But other times I've been just fine. So how exactly do you control the adrenaline rush coupled with the fear?

I don't think that the surge of adrenaline can actually be controlled.

On the other hand I think that the negative effects, (panic, freezing, mind blank) can be reduced through training to create reactions that are almost automatic. A realisation of your own abilities can help as well. Knowing what you can and cannot do can lead you to stand or run as the situation dictates.

The "dear in the headlights" reaction to a fearfull situation is mental, not physical. While training as Steel Tiger suggests is great, the real solution is to train your MIND.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

Attention All Users:

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[zDom]

My younger brother has often told people that I am "fearless" based on his observations of my reactions to conflicts.

Completely not true. In fact, I tend to have a physical/emotional "fear" reaction — activation of the "fight or flight" surge of adrenaline — much sooner than the norm, I believe.

Even if, in my MIND, I *know* I have an advantage, I find adrenaline kicks in and makes me feel jittery, nervous.

But once I am physically attacked, it seems I channel these feelings, the adrenaline, into action and the feeling is no longer there: like flipping a switch, it is "GO" time and I'm fine.

One thing that helped tremendously is the time I received a (syringe) shot of adrenalize to alleviate asthma symptoms.

I was able to recognize the physical effects of adrenaline while KNOWING there was nothing I was fearful of at that particular moment. It was a very illuminating experience for me. An epiphany.

Kind of rambling post, I know... To loosely quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

 

[Robert Lee]

everybody should know fear. BUT how you use that fear is how it either works to help you or works to harm you. Control well perhaps, but to discover the use of your fear is perhaps a better method So we can have fear but seem calm in our actions.

 

[tradrockrat]

Hm, interesting. So is the reptile brain a positve or negative thing?

Depends on if you want to live or not. If all that is keeping you alive is letting go of thought and acting...

There is a salutaion used in training with the Kukri. It is repeated threee times before training begins after the sword is brought out in a physical salute. It goes:

"Repeat draws, cuts, and blocks.
Repeat steps, turns, and locks,
Until sword frees from thought."

In combat you don't have time to train or think about what you need to do, you just have time to act.



As has been said over and over - fear is good, fear is neccessary, fear is an integral part of how we work. Courage is the what I strive for, not fearlessness.

JMHO

 

[Steel Tiger]

My younger brother has often told people that I am "fearless" based on his observations of my reactions to conflicts.

Completely not true. In fact, I tend to have a physical/emotional "fear" reaction — activation of the "fight or flight" surge of adrenaline — much sooner than the norm, I believe.

Even if, in my MIND, I *know* I have an advantage, I find adrenaline kicks in and makes me feel jittery, nervous.

But once I am physically attacked, it seems I channel these feelings, the adrenaline, into action and the feeling is no longer there: like flipping a switch, it is "GO" time and I'm fine.

One thing that helped tremendously is the time I received a (syringe) shot of adrenalize to alleviate asthma symptoms.

I was able to recognize the physical effects of adrenaline while KNOWING there was nothing I was fearful of at that particular moment. It was a very illuminating experience for me. An epiphany.

Kind of rambling post, I know... To loosely quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

That physiological reaction you describe is a lot like what sprinters experience just before a race. In fact, in my younger days when I ran competitively, I experienced it as a tingly and slight shaking that went away as soon as we were called to the blocks to start.

On those occasion when I have been fearful I have experienced the same sensation. But as with the sprinting it went away once I was acting. It was interesting to note that afterwards the twitchy sensations returned. I wonder if this was a release of all the pent up anxiety brought on by the situation.

PS: XS any help would be much appreciated.