One punch, one kill?

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by PAUL
No need for that; I am not an Admin 1st of all, and second of all I don't think you were inappropriate or anything like that. I just disagreed w/ you, thats all.

I disagree with the notion that any type of "killing 1st strike" can be relied on, no matter how well you train your hands, body, and skills. I think that this notion is a false sense of power. The nature of the human body is too volitle; it is stronger and more resilient then we think at times, and weaker and more fragile then we think at other times to predict what will occur when you hit a person. Plus, situations and circumstances are too volitle; you don't know what the other guy is going to do, what the circumstance will be, etc., etc.

It was NOT about relying on executing JUST one single punch to save your ***. Rather, it is about conditioning to achieve such power and hardness that EVEN one SINGLE punch is ENOUGH to KO. That was and is the original intent.

The objective is to train to achieve such attainment that you have the ability to execute One Punch One Kill.

I also disagree with the notion of stating you know a specialized training method which you attest to being effective w/o being able to give any information regarding that method. I can understand why you might not want to give training details on the net, but I don't have to agree.

Thank you,
PAUL

Not a problem. I am not here to present myself as knowing anything. This isn't high school anymore. Back then, you are what other teenagers say you are. In real life, you are what you are, not what others think or say you are.

All I was saying was that there are modern training methods that allow you to train safely to achive One Punch One Kill. It is NOT important that anyone believe I possess such knowledge or not. This is NOT about me.

People are free to continue to assume that One Punch One Kill is impossible and no such training method exists. All the same to me.

 

[stickarts]

That is the same idea that some folks had that i used to train with. They weren't throwing one punch and stopping! They were quite capable of throwing great combinations. it was just the thought that their first technique was thrown with authority and they trained to develop amazing explosiveness and power.
the course that this thread has taken was not their idea at all.
i remember having huge bruises on my arms because even blocking the techniques caused damage, and that was using control and not using full power!
Their intent was that their first shot was to cause extreme damage but they were quite capable of following up with additional techniques when necessary.
My approach is different, but their approach sure worked! not saying its for everyone!
I have have seen many different approaches to fighting work if the skill of the practitioner was there.

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by KennethKu
It was NOT about relying on executing JUST one single punch to save your ***. Rather, it is about conditioning to achieve such power and hardness that EVEN one SINGLE punch is ENOUGH to KO. That was and is the original intent.

I see. Now that you have clarified further, I better understand. You can train your body to where the possibility better exists that you can KO or Kill w/ one strike; I can agree with this. I thought you were advocating relying on 1 single save your *** punch, which I couldn't agree with.

 

[SenseiBear]

I did a few years of mild Iron Hand conditioning, just enough to increase the size and density of my primary striking knuckles to the point where I wouldn't have to worry what target I was striking - and did it without any serious traumatic injuries... Though now that I have not been training my hand for several years I sometimes suffer from soft tissue damage when I demonstrate. And while I think hand hardening is a practice you can undertake without serious traumatic damage, I also believe that you risk arthritis later in life any time you encourage bone callousing of a joint. That being said, I'm glad I did it and would do it again (though you may ask me in another 20 years and I may change my mind)

I have several times in my life dropped an opponent with a single blow. It was never my intention, they just collapsed before I got the second strike off (or as I was impacting the second time, but it was clearly the first shot that did it). If you train your hands to be hard, and practice delivering impacts, I think you can increase the chance of dropping someone with a single blow. I would never plan on it, as I said in my earlier post, keep hitting till they're down, but sometimes it happens... And sometimes it can happen that a person will die. MA is a dangerous activity, and sometimes people are killed. If you are fighting bare knuckles and over half contact, it is more likely to happen.

But I don't think you can train so that you are certain that you can kill a person with one punch... Nothing is certain.

 

[Brother John]

In Kenpo Karate we emphasize the difference between Major and Minor Moves.
The one punch kill? Yes, prefixed by minor moves... suffixed with minor/major moves... leading to more.
It all flows together.
Your Brother
John

 

[7starmantis]

My only thoughts about the principle of it all, is that if you are focused on one punch- one kill, what happens when you miss that one punch? What if the opponent has some skill and yields and ends up behind you with a nice elbow to the head, what then? I think it can fog your vision of what to do. Sure, we all hope that our first initial move will end the fight, and in reality against a non MA person, it probably would, but it might not. you have to be ready to move from technique to technique simultaneously if one doesn't work.

7sm

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I'm not going to rely on one punch.

Even in pistolcraft they teach double tap to the heart, one between the running lights if there is a failure to stop.

However, I think the "one punch, one kill" philosophy is just that...a philosophy designed to get you to think efficiently, to draw maximum power out of each technique, and to go for perfection of form...this is good.

It turns BAD when people start posing their technique ala Bruce Lee in "The Chinese Connection", hoping that the opponent will fall down dramatically after being popped. We all know that doesn't happen with the frequency we would like to see (provided WE'RE the ones doing the hitting, and not the receiving). We end up missing, or we end up hitting with less than optimal effect. Don't you hate it when you whack a guy and he just snarls at you?

Regards,

Steve Scott

 

[Shinzu]

i think it is more of a mindset than a reality.

it's the focus that counts. be prepared to use more than one attack, but have the mentality that you can win with just one hit.

 

[7starmantis]

In our system, if my first attack knocks you out clean, your still going to get four or five more before your body hits the ground. Its just the way our system works, and its pretty effective.

7sm

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Shinzu
i think it is more of a mindset than a reality.

it's the focus that counts. be prepared to use more than one attack, but have the mentality that you can win with just one hit.

Yes, good point.
But don't you agree that the training (our root in reality) is guided by and is a manifestation of our mindset?
SO: if the mindset isn't in-line with reality... then what?

Your Brother
John

 

[Touch Of Death]

My instructor has seen two people die from a single punch at tournaments. Both deaths were attributable to the fact that the punchers also had there foot planted on top of their opponents foot while punching. Sucks to be them! Position seems to be the key factor on punching results. Don't ya think?

 

[arnisador]

It seems like most deaths from a single punch actually occur when the head hist the floor, not when the punch hits the person. Irrelevant to the punchee, of course...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by arnisador
It seems like most deaths from a single punch actually occur when the head hist the floor, not when the punch hits the person. Irrelevant to the punchee, of course...

That isn't the case with the deaths my instructor witnessed, but I understand your point.

 

[RanaHarmamelda]

Hmm. Been thinking about this an inordinate amount, recently...mostly because I've started some karate training.

Kinda decided it's a lot more simple than most people seem to be thinking.

Do it right the first time -- you may not get another chance.

Knowing a little about Funakoshi, this sounds like the sort of life lesson he would have tried to sum up in karate terms. Although, not certain if this ever came out of his mouth. *shrug*

At any rate, I think its the fairly simple, broad, do it right the first time idea, only stated in karate terms.

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by RanaHarmamelda
Do it right the first time -- you may not get another chance.

At any rate, I think its the fairly simple, broad, do it right the first time idea, only stated in karate terms.

I couldn't agree more that we, as Karateka, must concentrate on making certain of the quality of each and every stroke...
BUT: if you follow the "one punch / one kill" ideology to it's logical conclusion in how it affects your training or the makeup of your techniques themselves... then you have no back-up, or little.

I trained in hard Karate styles for years and am very familiar with the "one punch / one kill" way of thinking... and then I got into a fight and my "one punch" only served to kill my illusion.
I understand what you are talking about, do it right... might not get a second chance...
BUT what about one technique leading/flowing into the next, and then the next.... to run the table just like in a game of pool?
Seems a bit more realistic.

Your Brother
John

 

[hardheadjarhead]

and then I got into a fight and my "one punch" only served to kill my illusion.

Gee, that was well put. I'm going to have to use that one!



Regards,

Steve

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by hardheadjarhead
Gee, that was well put. I'm going to have to use that one!



Regards,

Steve

But it'll cost ya a dalla first...


Your Bro.
John

 

[RanaHarmamelda]

Yeah -- you have a point. *grin* Truth be told, it's like most other karate philosophical statements -- take it with a big grain of salt.

 

[psi_radar]

Gotta admit I lack the killer instinct. Rather than developing a "killing blow," my goal as a martial artist is to develop the control necessary to ensure I can hurt, incapacitate, and injure at will without resorting to deadly force, yet still protect myself and the ones I care about. Everyone is somebody's baby--even if that person is a total SOB their death will make someone grieve.

Do you guys (and ladies) train to kill or incapacitate?

On a side note, I think our whole society has started to accept death as a natural consequence of altercations, especially when handguns are involved. I remember a day when police tried to "wing" fleeing suspects rather than turning them into swiss cheese. It probably has something to do with the preference of high-capacity automatics over double-action revolvers as well as a cheapening of life in general.

 

[Brother John]

gotta admit, you made me think.
darn you! :shrug:
Do I train to Kill?
Yes, I guess I do. Some of the techniques that I practice would easily kill a person were I to do them that way on a human.
I'm not a violence oriented person. Seem strange coming from a Knepoist/martial artist? It's not, I don't think. I'd hate to ever have to kill a person. I take human life as sacred, mine... theirs, everyone's (I'm everyone's "Brother"). But if they are trying to take mine or harm some one I care for.... or an inocent.... IF I must kill, I'd want to be good at it.
To me it all comes down to adaptation. In biology we learn that the organism that can adapt to its circumstances/environment... survives, the organism that does it best... thrives.
I want to thrive.
IF I must hurt, I'll hurt well.
IF I must injure, I'll injure well.
IF I must incapacitate or maim, I'll do those well.
IF I Must kill....

You get the point.
I want to train for all the options so that I have a choice.
Your Brother
John