A civilized way to prevent a fight

[skribs]

I don't see how the attacker's right arm is pinned. It looks like he could easily pull that arm out (okay, not as fast as a regular punch, but not much of a hindrance either) or spin to clear it.

I agree with what the others in this thread have said:
1) If you're at this point, it doesn't prevent the fight
2) It doesn't look like a viable way to keep someone from hitting you

 

[K-man]

I do teach a technique of de-escalation from 'sticky hands'. It doesn't trap the hands but restricts the movement in a manner that is not overly threatening. It utilises a dominant position and projection of confidence. If the opponent decides to fight, he telegraphs through the hands giving you the opportunity of pre-emptive strike or control. It is not something you would do against someone that you read as 'wanting' to fight but more for someone who you think is posturing, like you might find in a social situation.
:asian:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I had used the arms jam strategy to prevent a fight before. It works for me. I just put my idea out there to be tested. Thanks for all your guy's valuable input.

How about this strategy? The idea is you try to stop a fight and nobody gets hurt.

 

[drop bear]

I had used the arms jam strategy to prevent a fight before. It works for me. I just put my idea out there to be tested. Thanks for all your guy's valuable input.

How about this strategy? The idea is you try to stop a fight and nobody gets hurt.

Yeah I have grabbed peoples arms like that as well. But you wind up in the same position if you just grab their arms and cross them over without the hand trap element. Then you have them both at once. And less danger of them sniping you in the process. If you out muscle them you can generally hold them.

But if they are strong they will bust out of your grab. This is not the worst case in the world because if they are escaping they are open low to takedowns or body control.

With the pick up. Yeah sort of? And I have picked guys up. But you are relying on them not being very heavy or all you are going to do is drop them. And there are better ways to drop a guy if you wanted to do that.

Now if you take their back. The have to be really strong or skilled to bust out. You can hold them pick them up or drop them. Even if they are much bigger and are swinging you around you are still not getting hit until they can dislodge you from that position. So it is all around safer.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yeah I have grabbed peoples arms like that as well. But you wind up in the same position if you just grab their arms and cross them over without the hand trap element.

What kind of "hand trap" that you are talking about? Could you put up a clip?

If you step in, use your leading leg to jam your opponent's leading leg, you can prevent him from kicking you. But you may not want to reach to that level yet.

If you pull his left arm to jam his right "upper" arm, it will be even harder for him to pull his right arm free. The only problem is when you do that, since your right hand is on your left side, it will be harder for you to use your right arm to get a head lock on him from that position. Your own hands position depends on what move you intend to do if the fight continue.

 

[drop bear]

I will see if this thing does vids.

But the hand trap in the first video. You grab and change hands. From memory it is right hand then left then the right hand grabs their other arm and you cross over.

Just grab both hands at once and cross them and you wind up in the same place. And is a move mastered by anyone who has had a violent girlfriend.

I agree with you with the kicking. With your arms grabbed you get bugger all power. Like anything you need position first and the arm grabber has that. So you will generally loose a kick off from there.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But if they are strong they will bust out of your grab.

If my opponent can bust out of my grab, I'll turn around and run like hell. I'm not stupid enough to fight my opponent if I can "sense" that he is stronger than me. That will also "prevent" a fight.

The word "sense" is important here. If I can let my opponent to "sense" my strength, or if I can let myself to "sense" my opponent's strength, the fight can be prevented either way.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Just grab both hands at once and cross them and you wind up in the same place.

This strategy had been discussed in the other thread already. The difference is you can use a "jab" to set it up. The end result is still the same. In the following clip, you don't even jam your opponent's arms because your goal is different.

 

[drop bear]

If my opponent can bust out of my grab, I'll turn around and run like hell. I'm not stupid enough to fight my opponent if I can "sense" that he is stronger than me. That will also "prevent" a fight.

The word "sense" is important here. If I can let my opponent to "sense" my strength, or if I can let myself to "sense" my opponent's strength, the fight can be prevented either way.

The higher percentage movements you have the stronger you are.

The double arm grab is not high percentage it is just nice. He busts out I can go for a more basic clinch or a throw. Or take their back.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

He busts out I can go for a more basic clinch or a throw. Or take their back.

If you have spent all your life to develop your grip strength, and if your opponent can still bust out of it, there is no reason that you should continue that fight IMO. Why do you even want to take that chance if you have already found out that "your opponent is not that easy to deal with"?

 

[drop bear]

This strategy had been discussed in the other thread already. The difference is you can use a "jab" to set it up. The end result is still the same. In the following clip, you don't even jam your opponent's arms because your goal is different.

Yeah basically that. Grab both arms he can't pop you with his left. Why double handle one arm if you don't have to.

Now it is done when they are punching because you have to be superman to snatch it out of the air before you eat it. So you block the shot and try to grab it as it returns.

But they are not punching.

Which is a higher percentage arm grab anyway because their arms are moving more slowly. But it is a different method.

 

[drop bear]

If you have spent all your life to develop your grip strength, and if your opponent can still bust out of it, there is no reason that you should continue that fight IMO. Why do you even want to take that chance if you have already found out that "your opponent is not that easy to deal with"?

Because you have to fight to win. Not fight not to loose. Otherwise you will get beat up.

You still have the initiative so why give it up?

He has shaped up. I have attacked with an arm grab.

He has defended. Now I either get to attack again or disengage.

If I disengage he gets to attack. If I attack he has to defend.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

But they are not punching.

When your opponent punches, you use different strategy.

 

[drop bear]

When your opponent punches, you use different strategy.

Well that is your option. Sit there in big fist and let them wail on you. They will get bored eventually.

By the way get some mma gloves and a mouthguard and re try that. It will take away the notion that the other guy is being a bit nice.

You can pick up some wolons or rdx for ten to twenty bucks.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

so why give it up?

When you grab on your opponent's wrists, you are not only using your grip strength. You are also using your "sensitive" as well. When you "sense" your opponent intention, you "shake" him to prevent him from generating initial power. If both your "grip strength" and your "sensitive" fail, your opponent is better than you.

 

[drop bear]

When you grab on your opponent's wrists, you are not only using your grip strength. You are also using your "sensitive" as well. When you "sense" your opponent intention, you "shake" him to prevent him from generating initial power. If both your "grip strength" and your "sensitive" fail, your opponent is better than you.

Not at all. You just need a back up plan.

 

[Chris Parker]

Could a case be made for saiminjutsu and kiaijutsu being soft skills for de-escalation?

Hi Elder,

Honestly, I'd say no.

To look at Kiai-jutsu first, it's not designed to de-escalate at all, and is never employed as such (in classical arts). To intimidate? Sure. To interrupt an attack? Yep. But in those uses, it's used to provide an opening for an attack. Other uses are to bolster an attack or defence, to give proper breathing habits, to give confidence, to "increase the ki" of yourself or your action (depending on the belief of the system in question). Saiminjutsu (a form of hypnosis, for want of a better term) is really not suited at all either… once you're in a potentially violent situation, such subtleties are passed being applicable.

I had used the arms jam strategy to prevent a fight before. It works for me. I just put my idea out there to be tested. Thanks for all your guy's valuable input.

How about this strategy? The idea is you try to stop a fight and nobody gets hurt.

Uh… no.

If my opponent can bust out of my grab, I'll turn around and run like hell. I'm not stupid enough to fight my opponent if I can "sense" that he is stronger than me. That will also "prevent" a fight.

The word "sense" is important here. If I can let my opponent to "sense" my strength, or if I can let myself to "sense" my opponent's strength, the fight can be prevented either way.

Okay… so you're initiating a physical engagement, but if they're "stronger", and your first tactic doesn't work, you turn and "run like hell"? Honestly, from that position, you're likely to get caught pretty quickly… hmm. I'm not saying that it's the worst approach, but it's fairly, uh, impractical considering the set-up you've applied. That said, here's an old story of a similar approach… I would hasten to point out, of course, that a "friendly match" (as in this story) and a potential violent assault (as you're addressing) are completely different situations and contexts, with very different risks associated. Okay, here's the story:

TESSHU AND THE DUELIST
Yamaoka Tesshu, scholar, politician, counselor for the Emperor, is considered to be the last of the KENSEN, the"saints of the sword".
One day came to visit the Shumpukan, the famous Kendo Dojo fonded by Tesshu ,a samurai with a fame of being a big duelist,credited to have won many duels. This gentleman, nicknamed "the Edo terror" asked for the honor of a practice fight with the teacher, and, having donned the bogu, they confronted each other.
After a few moments, Tesshu lowered his guard and said to the other:"I think it is useless to go on. May to speak to you briefly?".
Once went away from the practice floor, Tesshu went on:" it is clear from you behavior, that you are not familiar with fencing,however, you are famed as a mighty duelist, could you please enlighten me on this fact?" " Ha, Sensei, you noticed!You are utterly right" replied good humourly the samurai:" well, you must know that I have a fierce temper, and this leads me frequently to draw the sword. As you rightly said, I have not a very great talent for fencing, however there is a thing that I know. As soon as my opponent crosses his sword with mine, I adhere with my blade to his own; if I feel his sword to be rigid and unyielding, this means that he is at least as afraid as I am and is not very good, so I can fight and win. If, on the other side, I feel the point of his blade soft and "living", I go back a pace, put the sword back and run away. You know, people remembers the duels I won, not the ones in which I ran away"

This strategy had been discussed in the other thread already. The difference is you can use a "jab" to set it up. The end result is still the same. In the following clip, you don't even jam your opponent's arms because your goal is different.

And, like most of these, this is a rather low-return technique unless your opponent happens to just stand there waiting for you to do whatever you want without reacting or resisting at all. Done the way it is here is fine for an expression of a principle, but as a practical method, it's rather lacking to my eyes.

 

[RTKDCMB]

How about this strategy?

It would be a good way of relieving them of their lunch money.

 

[jks9199]

I had used the arms jam strategy to prevent a fight before. It works for me. I just put my idea out there to be tested. Thanks for all your guy's valuable input.

How about this strategy? The idea is you try to stop a fight and nobody gets hurt.

Very demeaning, and again, of limited utility. Odds are that if you've got someone mad enough to be punching at you -- when you pick 'em up off the ground and dangle them upside down, all you'll accomplish is making them more angry. You may limit their ability to fight you (I can see several ways it wouldn't necessarily do so) -- but you likely won't do anything to calm 'em down.

 

[Balrog]

In the following clip, if you can control your opponent and if he can't break your grips, he may not want to fight you any more.

Probably. But in the clip shown, the defender is starting on the inside position and makes no effort to get outside to at least the first position. And his attacker is being very nice by throwing slow punches and not following the jab with an immediate cross to the defender's face.