Counter to throw

[drop bear]

Also an example as to why you may not be able to block that arm from coming around your waist.

In that it is a counter to your counter and so on.

 

[dvcochran]

Dropping your hips works really well. A lot of MMA BJJ style throws do weird offset hips during hip throws to give you a chance to recover and not have your back taken.

Eg. A wrestling hip toss with weird hips.

Agree. I think most times that throw would require much more upper body strength (than I have) and doesn't use leverage to it's advantage very well. .

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Even if punching is no allowed in the wrestling, you still should not pretend that your opponent will not punch on your head. The waist wrap (or upper collar grip) still give your opponent a free arm that can knock on your head.

The more effort that you train how to control your opponent's arm/arms in wrestling game, the less chance that you will be punched in MMA game.

Sometime when we discuss the wrestling art, we may ignore the striking art completely.

Does this bother you? Your thought?

 

[drop bear]

Even if punching is no allowed in the wrestling, you still should not pretend that your opponent will not punch on your head. The waist wrap (or upper collar grip) still give your opponent a free arm that can knock on your head.

The more effort that you train how to control your opponent's arm/arms in wrestling game, the less chance that you will be punched in MMA game.

Sometime when we discuss the wrestling art, we may ignore the striking art completely.

Does this bother you? Your thought?

Not if it is just wrestling. Grappling and striking have different mechanisms.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Not if it is just wrestling. Grappling and striking have different mechanisms.

But we are talking about MA in general. It's wrong for a striker to ignore double legs. It's equally wrong for a wrestler to ignore head punch.

A: Your fighting stance is risky for double legs.
B: Your hip throw is risky for head punch.

We have to use the same standard here.

 

[drop bear]

But we are talking about MA in general. It's wrong for a striker to ignore double legs. It's equally wrong for a wrestler to ignore head punch.

A: Your fighting stance is risky for double legs.
B: Your hip throw is risky for head punch.

We have to use the same standard here.

Which is why you should do MMA.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Which is why you should do MMA.

It sounds very funny to me that in striking art thread that people talk about their anti-grappling training is useless. But in wrestling art thread, people don't even want to talk about any anti-striking strategy.

Are we using different standard here?

It makes no sense to me that a striker has to worry about double legs, but a wrestler doesn't have to worry about head punch.

 

[drop bear]

It sounds very funny to me that in striking art thread that people talk about their anti-grappling training is useless. But in wrestling art thread, people don't even want to talk about any anti-striking strategy.

Are we using different standard here?

It makes no sense to me that a striker has to worry about double legs, but a wrestler doesn't have to worry about head punch.

Because you are more likely to beat a pure striker with wrestling than you are a wrestler with striking.

The mechanics are different.

You have to punch a wrestler untill he falls unconscious to negate his wrestling. This quite often takes multiple attempts.

A wrestler only has to close the distance once. To negate striking.

And changing levels is a striking defence in itself.

So a double leg has striking defence built in via the entry. Then has striking defence from closing distance. Then has positional advantage to get the takedown. And once the takedown is a chieved has even more positional advantage to finish the fight.

Striking protects the wrong targets and attacks the wrong things in this instance. And even if successful only puts you back to a 50/50 position.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

And changing levels is a striking defence in itself.

If someone uses hip throw on you, how can he avoid to be punched on his head? Should that be part of his hip throw training?

Many years ago, when I started to teach hip throw to my students, when I wrap my right arm around his waist, his left free hand punched on my head. After that day, I always consider what my opponent's free arm can do to me even in a pure wrestling game.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Even if punching is no allowed in the wrestling, you still should not pretend that your opponent will not punch on your head. The waist wrap (or upper collar grip) still give your opponent a free arm that can knock on your head.

The more effort that you train how to control your opponent's arm/arms in wrestling game, the less chance that you will be punched in MMA game.

Sometime when we discuss the wrestling art, we may ignore the striking art completely.

Does this bother you? Your thought?

If you are training for grappling competition, that’s what your training should probably focus on. That’s about as far as “should” should go.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But we are talking about MA in general. It's wrong for a striker to ignore double legs. It's equally wrong for a wrestler to ignore head punch.

A: Your fighting stance is risky for double legs.
B: Your hip throw is risky for head punch.

We have to use the same standard here.

Not “wrong” if the purpose is that specific kind of competition.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you are training for grappling competition, that’s what your training should probably focus on. That’s about as far as “should” should go.

I'm talking about MA training. I'm not talking about grappling competition.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm talking about MA training. I'm not talking about grappling competition.

Some MA training is purposely for grappling competition. As some is purposely for striking competition. Both are valid.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Some MA training is purposely for grappling competition. As some is purposely for striking competition. Both are valid.

- Competition is the path.
- Combat is the goal.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

- Competition is the path.
- Combat is the goal.

Not for everyone.

 

[drop bear]

If someone uses hip throw on you, how can he avoid to be punched on his head? Should that be part of his hip throw training?

Many years ago, when I started to teach hip throw to my students, when I wrap my right arm around his waist, his left free hand punched on my head. After that day, I always consider what my opponent's free arm can do to me even in a pure wrestling game.

You were using double legs a minute ago. In which point the head movement done correctly actually prevents the punch a bit.