So on that note, I move for a banning of seatbelts and air bags from all vehicles. People are more inclined to crash if they think they are safe.
6th graders may get birth control pills in school?
- Thread starter Ceicei
- Start date
KempoGuy06
Grandmaster
Whether scare tactics would work...I dont know. They didnt work on me. I would drink and drive all the time until I put my car into a ditch, mailbox and then a tree. I took that from me, and totaled truck (2 weeks after he bought it) and a DUI for my friends to learn.
It took the loss of friends for me to figure out what drugs will do to you.
But because they didnt work for me doesnt mean they wont work at all. I just think something other than handing out BC pills needs to be done. Whats the difference between this and and being able to get a morning after pill from the school nurse?
B
It took the loss of friends for me to figure out what drugs will do to you.
But because they didnt work for me doesnt mean they wont work at all. I just think something other than handing out BC pills needs to be done. Whats the difference between this and and being able to get a morning after pill from the school nurse?
B
CoryKS
Senior Master
That has been considered. But it strikes me as a reductio ad absurdium. I don't see dying in a violent car crash - possibly as a result of someone else's dumbass decision - as comparable to having your life choices limited by unintended parenthood. Though I will say that I have a problem with mandatory wearing of seat belts.
Ray
Master Black Belt
The glaring ironic example of laws, choices and what we as a society foister upon our own is this: The law requiring the use of seat belts because it saves lives while, at the same time, having no helmet law for motorcyclists because it infringes upon our freedom.
CoryKS
Senior Master
Weird that this article would pop up now. Kinda goes with what I was saying. If you let kids accept the outcomes of their behavior, especially when they're young enough that the risks aren't too great, they gain a better understanding that their actions have consequences.
Plus, you're less likely to face the sad spectacle of them growing into "adults" who whine about how life isn't fair and go all Harrison Bergeron with the legal system or tax codes.
Plus, you're less likely to face the sad spectacle of them growing into "adults" who whine about how life isn't fair and go all Harrison Bergeron with the legal system or tax codes.
My point's summed up in your first paragraph.
Kids die in a drunken driving accident, it means all kids are stupid. Adults die in drunk driving accident, it leads to a null set?
grydth
Senior Master
I don't believe there is any disagreement that some children do terrible things - and have horrible things done to them. A cursory look shows that the rest of the world is even worse - - - children used as drug couriers down south, human bombs in the Middle East, 'soldiers' in Africa and sex toys in the Far East. Nothing I can do will end all of this.
But the thread question deals with 10 year olds considering sex, and what schools should do about it. Will some kids go ahead no matter what? Sadly, sure they will. And don't kid yourselves, it isn't a "choice" because a 10 year old doesn't yet have the reasoning and judgment necessary to make a choice..... it's exploitation and it's rape. Period.
While some kids will always take the wrong path, many more can be saved from possibly deadly consequences if adults step up and protect them. Schools should never facilitate rape and child abuse. The primary duty belongs to the parent - and no school should be acting beyond the knowledge of the parent. You want schools to have no involvement, fine. But don't hand out the material a 17 year old with AIDS or herpes needs to bang my 12 year old daughter..... and then keep it a big secret from ole dad. That's despicable, and I believe, criminal.
To me, there's no comparison between a kid covertly puffing on a cigarette - or even a joint, grabbing a few gulps of beer..... and being sexually exploited with consequences of pregnancy and disease.
Saying "it will always happen" is no good reason not to do everything we can to stop it from happening.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how did this thread go from talks of 6th graders going on the pill to sexual molestation and exploitation? Do you think that 2 15yr old, who are making out in the girls bedroom are thinking, "Oh, this is exploitation or molestation?" I really find that hard to believe.
Cigarette: Cancer. Drugs: could very well lead to experimenting with other drugs. Beer: Could lead to harder liquor, DUI. But these things are not as bad as having sex? Okay.
Please explain to me sir, how you propose to stop it from happening? How will you monitor what your kids do when they leave your house?
grydth
Senior Master
Always happy to assist in times of confusion + discord.... 1) The thread title refers to 6th graders receiving birth control at school. 2) In this region, 6th graders are customarily 10 to 11 years old - (If the 6th graders in your locale are usually 15, I shall refrain from commentary upon that fact) 3) Children aged 10 do not have the maturity or legal ability to consent to sex.... if they are doing it, it is called statutory rape. That is how I got there. Most 10 year old girls haven't even reached puberty yet - and you wonder how I call it molestation and abuse to involve them in a sex act?!
Second.... An eventually "could lead to" is clearly, on its face, not nearly as dangerous as a single act which can kill you. A child sneaking a beer may eventually move on to Jack Daniels and still more eventually might die of something related to alcoholism. There need be no eventually when speaking of a 10 year old girl being exploited for sex - just the once can get her AIDS, herpes, syph.... and pregnant. One dose is all it takes! Course, that's just the physical side of exploited children. It does not take into account the immense and possibly permanent psychological damage. Last I checked, just having a beer did not make girls feel cheap, dirty and worthless.
Again, recall the exact situation posed by the thread it was not how to end all teen sex, but rather should schools be handing out material that facilitates 10 year old girls having sex. I say "no".
What have I done as a parent? Had my daughter take the class in sixth grade - - - and then had both her mother and step mother have personal discussions. I let them know they can bring things to us and that I love them no matter what. I reinforce my girls' self esteem every day - girls and women with low self esteem are far easier to prey on. I've told them of some of the tactics that men use to prey upon girls, and pointed out examples of dirtbags to them. I keep track of where my girls are, and sacrifice a ton of personal time to be with them (not a martyr - I love the family time) Don't be so selfish as to consign your kids into dangerous situations before they are ready. Half the battle is giving the kids the values, the other half is giving them the judgment and confidence to handle things on their own.
bydand
Senior Master
This whole situation is in "my" State. (Note: I do not claim Maine, but am living here for another 9 or so months) Maine is a completely different animal than you can even think of when it comes to State, School, Agency interference in family life. The whole problem stems from a "God complex" of most authority figures. Right now there is a little used statute that makes it "OK" for a girl as young as 11 to obtain birth control pills without consent of her parents or guardians, and they do NOT have to inform the parents of the situation. This is just an extension of that to a school system. The amount of incest and family abuse here in the State is staggering, this was a way for the kids to at least protect themselves from becoming preggers. It is your typical band-aid approach to a real problem that is not being dealt with at the level it should be. They are addressing the symptom and not the problem. There has been little uproar over this except that most people you ask will say it is wrong, but nobody speaks up. This is going to do nothing good for this school or the State, the students are still going to continue with their hazardous lifestyle, with the false security that the pill is going to stop the "bad" from happening. It address' nothing about STD's and mental/emotional issues these kids are going to have later in life, if not right now. A better choice to spend MY tax dollars on would be more/better counseling services for the school to find out the WHY. (NOTE: I know this is address kids having sex with kids, but I thought the background of WHY this is even thought to be OK would fill in a bit of the holes.)
Can you tell, this just burns my shorts! Giving minors a prescription drug that alters their bodies hormones, and feel you don't have an obligation to inform parents. The whole lot of them should be removed from the school board!
Can you tell, this just burns my shorts! Giving minors a prescription drug that alters their bodies hormones, and feel you don't have an obligation to inform parents. The whole lot of them should be removed from the school board!
1) True
2) Yup, probably shouldn't have brought 15yr olds into it. However, the issue of sex as a whole, is not limited to just 6th graders. This thread has jumped all over the place with various ages. I've seen some posts saying that 16 or 17 is the age of consent. In your opinion, regardless of that fact, I highly doubt a 17yr old is capable of raising a child on her own.
3) So you're saying that the molestation is happening by a boy the same age as the female? As I said, I doubt, regardless of age, molestation/exploitation is going thru their minds.
I get the impression that the whole exploitation/molestation thing is being taken out of context in this thread. As I said above, I doubt that is whats going thru their minds. It also seems as if the male is the one that is stereotyped as being the one to pressure the girl into sex, making her as you said, cheap, dirty and worthless.
Well, if people were that against it, did they protest? Did they petition against it? Unless I've missed it, I havent heard anything in my area about schools doing this at that age.
Hey, sounds like you've done alot. More parents should take the time to educate their kids. Perhaps then we wouldn't have so many teen pregnancies. However, let me ask you this. While I understand you keep track of your daughters, how do you know exactly whats going on at their destination? Example: They can tell you they're going to their friends house to study. Little do you know, their friend has 3 boys at the house. That was my point. Unless you follow them 24/7, its impossible to know everything they're doing.
grydth
Senior Master
To bydand: Heavens no! Don't tell the parents ahead of time! They might spoil it!
No, we'll let Dad know when his child is infected with herpes, has a pregnancy and is a mental wreck.
No, we'll let Dad know when his child is infected with herpes, has a pregnancy and is a mental wreck.
bydand
Senior Master
grydth
Senior Master
You know, I wouldn't personalize this - you never struck me as being the type who'd be wildly in favor of pre-teen orgies.
Yes, the case is much different when you have 2 sixteen year olds who believe they are in love.... but that's not what the originator gave us.... and 10 year olds should not be having sex.... and the only proper reaction from adults is putting a stop to it - not facilitating it.
As to what can one do about the phony destination ploy: Teach the kids early on not to lie. If the kids do not have basic values instilled early, there will be trouble later. Check out your kids' friends. Make contact with the parents at the destination before your kid heads over. get to know those families. If need be, sacrifice some more of your time to chaperone.
Since I don't live in Maine, I can't speak for their laws - but in Colorado an age range of up to 4 years is acceptable if both partners are minors, so 2 12 year-olds - or a 12 year-old and a 16 year-old - is a legal situation from that standpoint. Outside that age range, it becomes statutory rape, no matter the "consent" of the participants. For those who want more information by state, I found this site: STATUTORY RAPE LAWS BY STATE. I will note that this site is from 2003 - so things may have changed.
To return to the original topic, and keeping bydand's comment about Maine laws in mind - I still have a problem with providing medication (especially medication that modifies hormonal balances) to children under 18 for any reason without their parents' knowledge. There are times when I could see it being necessary - incest is an example that comes immediately to mind - but in that case, it is in response to a much bigger problem, for which this policy on contraceptives is, IMHO, a badly-conceived bandaid rather than any type of reasonable response to the issue bydand discussed above in post 90.
To return to the original topic, and keeping bydand's comment about Maine laws in mind - I still have a problem with providing medication (especially medication that modifies hormonal balances) to children under 18 for any reason without their parents' knowledge. There are times when I could see it being necessary - incest is an example that comes immediately to mind - but in that case, it is in response to a much bigger problem, for which this policy on contraceptives is, IMHO, a badly-conceived bandaid rather than any type of reasonable response to the issue bydand discussed above in post 90.
bydand
Senior Master
Statutory Rape in Maine is based not only on overall age of the persons, but also age difference. If there is 4 or more year difference then it is persecuted as statutory rape. So if an 11 year old and a 16 year are having sex, the 16 year old can be prosecuted.
Hmmm..not quite sure how to take this comment. Hopefully you're being sincere about this, considering I've never said anything of that nature. Or this could be a hidden shot at me, hinting that I am in favor of this, which of course would be a flat out lie. Care to clarify for me?
I honestly think that you are wishing, dreaming, hoping for things that probably won't happen. But hey, if you are making it work for your kids, thats great.
CoryKS
Senior Master
You may not be able to stop them, but you can make it awfully difficult for them. Hey, maybe that's why parents are getting their kids into so many activities? "I'm sorry, my son cannot get bizzay with you right now. He has soccer practice. And then riding lessons, and after that it's karate and then..."
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