6th graders may get birth control pills in school?

[CoryKS]

It's not clear that they need permission from the article that Ceicei provided:

Students need parental permission to access the school's health center. But treatment is confidential under state law, which allows the students to decide whether to inform their parents about the services they receive.

So in order to use the health center at all, they need parental permission. But once they are in, the parents have no say at all. Is this a sexual health center or what used to be the nurse's office? If a parent doesn't give permission to use the center, does that mean the kid can't get looked at for cold/flu symptoms?

I guess it's the second one:

The other "no" vote Wednesday night came from Ben Meiklejohn, who said a parental consent form, which allows students to receive any kind of treatment at the school health center, does not clearly define the services being offered.

 

[Seeking Zen]

Ok...

Wrong...period! There is no rationalization of this. Why don't we just put a target on our 10-11yr olds head? Yes, what message does this send hormone raging 14-18 yr olds boys? Is this not saying it's ok to have sex with 10-11yr olds??? What message is this sending to pedophiles? It must be ok, there giving them birth control. If you think that is far fetched you’re dreaming!

Onto health, birth control doesn't prevent disease. So why, why pills...there is NO point, contraceptives prevent pregnancy and disease. So what possible validation can be used for the pill? Other than to encourage sexual behaviour.

As for parental permission. From the research I have done. The child needs permission to see the counsellor, however not to receive the prescription. In fact the school is forbidden to inform the parents of the prescription. Soooo at what point did we cede control of our children to strangers. Not just “Teenagers"...but CHILDREN!

Questions ....Providing a 11yr old child with alcohol: Illegal (you would be charged in a snap)
Can an 11yr vote: no
Would you let your 10-11yr old wander the streets alone, go on transit alone: I hope not.
Is an 11yr old responsible enough to decide for themselves to drop out of school, leave home...would you allow someone else to make the decision for them and support being forbidden from that discussion and decision etc:

THERE IS NO REASONABLE ARGUMENT FOR THIS!!!! PERIOD it’s a child!

Finally WHERE ARE THE PARENTS???????!!!!!!! That this could possibly be and issue?

 

[Andrew Green]

What message is this sending to pedophiles? It must be ok, there giving them birth control. If you think that is far fetched you’re dreaming!

So you would deny kids that are likely going to do it with or without the means to do it safely because of a few sick adults?

You make it sound like they are giving them to everyone and telling them to take them, not having to go and request them.

It's also a middle school, 11 is the very youngest, there will also be 14 year olds there. And yes, some 14 year olds have sex, and in a good many places they are legally allowed to do so.

I'd guess that very few if any of the grade 6 students use them, but some of the grade 8 students might. If they are going to have sex, then why should they be unable to do so safely?

Onto health, birth control doesn't prevent disease. So why, why pills...there is NO point, contraceptives prevent pregnancy and disease. So what possible validation can be used for the pill? Other than to encourage sexual behaviour.

Pregnancy at that age is not really a good thing, and the pill is a good way of preventing it. Condoms would be better, but maybe they tried that and found them all getting turned into balloons. I don't know there reasoning.

As for parental permission. From the research I have done. The child needs permission to see the counsellor, however not to receive the prescription. In fact the school is forbidden to inform the parents of the prescription. Soooo at what point did we cede control of our children to strangers. Not just “Teenagers"...but CHILDREN!

Which is good. If a child can't confide in a parent for whatever reason, best that they have someone they can talk to that won't tell there parents.

11-14 is a pretty big range at that age. Some people here seem to be looking only at the bottom end of it and getting worked up, look at the range. Also it is still something they have to ask for. If they ask then they probably should get, because at that point they've likely made there decision regardless.

 

[Kacey]

According to an article in today's WaPo:

Students treated at the centers must first get written parental permission

It's not very hard to get written parental permission without the parents knowledge. Not a good idea. I think it needs to be an in person deal.

Written permission is absurdly easy to fake... on the other hand, the students I have the most trouble with are those whose parents can never be reached for school-related issues - good or bad - and I suspect that they are the parents of the children most in need... which takes us back 'round the circle again.

 

[Arizona Angel]

Written permission is absurdly easy to fake... on the other hand, the students I have the most trouble with are those whose parents can never be reached for school-related issues - good or bad - and I suspect that they are the parents of the children most in need... which takes us back 'round the circle again.

Yes, I have to say I agree. If we all just actively parent maybe there wouldn't be such issues on the table.

 

[tellner]

I was listening to an interview clip with the nurse who started the whole thing. She came forward and asked the school board to take action because girls were coming to her already sexually active, and she believed that the ones who were willing to talk to her were just the tip of the iceberg.

She didn't want to brush them off.
She didn't want to do something illegal.
She wanted some official policy on how she was supposed to help these girls.
So she went to the people in charge and said "You make the tough decisions. Make this one."

I think she did exactly the right thing.

But it got me to thinking. A lot of people will say "The girls should talk to their parents about this. If they can't, parents have gotten incompetent and lazy." That got me thinking a little more.

When my mother in law was in her early twenties - married with a toddler and with a baby (my wife) on the way she took her younger sister to see the doctor. The sister was going away to college and wanted a "just in case" diaphragm. In those days she couldn't get one legally, so she went with her to convince the doctor that her sister was engaged and about to be married. A transparent piece of deception that fooled nobody but satisfied the forms. We were less upfront about such things as a society half a century ago. Over a third of marriages (cf. The Way We Never Were) resulted in "premature" births in those days, so we were much more moral :shrug:

Was it the Bard who said that "An eager young bride can do in six months where a cow or a countess takes nine" ?

That was the same conversation where my wife talked about "Camp". It was something girls in the area she lived in did when they were in their early teens. She was a foreigner, so she didn't go. But girls talk. At Camp the girls spent days or a week or so with older women. They went through some ceremonies, but mostly it marked the official beginning of being an adult woman. They got frank talk from the aunties and grandmothers about boys, babies, how the two were related, hard work, being a wife and other Sacred Female Mysteries What Men Wot not What Of.

That led to discussions about how young women get advice on important matters - sex, but not just sex - in other traditional cultures. It's not always, or even almost always through a girl's mother. Older sisters, younger aunts, grandmothers and "aunties" really are the backbone of this sort of thing. Before the Industrial Revolution and so on destroyed the extended family and turned community into a political bludgeon that was how things were. Young women look to older women they trust for advice and help at just the time when they're beginning to experiment with independence from their parents. It doesn't matter how much they love their mothers and fathers any more than it means a toddler who has learned a two year old's favorite word doesn't love them. It doesn't mean the parents are bad at their job. It's just the way people are.

These days we are short of aunties and uncles. The nuclear family and the State are all most of us have. So the school nurse, an older woman in a position of respect who a girl can trust to listen and not tell becomes the repository for the confidences that would have been entrusted to her grandmother, an older brother's wife or the compassionate wise-eyed old widow who lives across the way in ages past.

I really noticed this when we taught at the local urban public university. The median freshman is 23 and has a family and job. You get everything from 17 year old exchange students to grandparents who always wanted to finish a degree but never had the time. We were always ecstatic when there was a strong older woman in the class.

Much of the tone of these things depends on finding trend setters in the class, women who provide a good example that encourages the rest of the class to believe it's possible and that they can leave their inhibitions and doubts behind. Whenever there was a grandmother in the crowd we didn't have to look any further. The younger women all tended to defer and follow her example. And the grannies tended to be a lot more matter of fact about everything from hitting people to body shyness than the most worldly eighteen year old.

I remember one who grabbed the biggest guy in the class (we had to teach mixed classes which was mixed good and bad), got down on her back and had him straddle her so she could practice a modified bridge to escape. He was really shy about the whole thing. She said "Come on, son. I've raised four boys. You don't have anything I haven't seen." After that the girls (by comparison I just had to think of them that way) did a lot better.

The way we live now, there just plain aren't enough tough old grannies. It's a shame the school nurse has to fill that role.

 

[BrandiJo]

From what i gather... its the parents who sign up for the health care, its the parents who can opt out of any sort of treatment, and if they want their kids to have this option open they can. My parents would have signed me up for it, not because they did not trust me, not because they thought i was sleeping around but because they wanted me to be protected when and if i had sex if i felt i could not get reasonable advice from them. Do i think 11-13 year olds should be having sex, no, but if they are then they need protection.

Is it wise, healthy, and safe to know that a child is having sex and turn a blind eye because its awkward? no, but at the same time it is not good to just hand out the pills, i think they should get the pills when and if they want them but also have to take a class or have a talk with the health care worker handing out the pills to know how to properly take them, and how to avoid risky behavior.

A lot of children feel they cannot talk to their parents about sex, heck im married and i still blush and turn red when my mom asks if we are wanting a family or "being safe" now try that at 13 when you are sure your mom would freak out and tell your dad who would (and rightly so ) want to kill the guy... would you really wanna be like hey mom can i have BC pills?

Its not the greatest idea... but its better then nothing.
​

 

[Seeking Zen]

It's also a middle school, 11 is the very youngest, there will also be 14 year olds there. And yes, some 14 year olds have sex, and in a good many places they are legally allowed to do so.

I'd guess that very few if any of the grade 6 students use them, but some of the grade 8 students might. If they are going to have sex, then why should they be unable to do so safely?

Pregnancy at that age is not really a good thing, and the pill is a good way of preventing it. Condoms would be better, but maybe they tried that and found them all getting turned into balloons. I don't know there reasoning.


11-14 is a pretty big range at that age. Some people here seem to be looking only at the bottom end of it and getting worked up, look at the range. Also it is still something they have to ask for. If they ask then they probably should get, because at that point they've likely made there decision regardless.

Another thought...how many of these young girls now having the pill will
ensure there "partner" is using a condom. I would guess next to none. Providing the pill is pointless. I stops pregnacy, that's it. So I fail to see where this policy is about protecting anyone or solving any problem. Other than a young girls worry of getting caught.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Let me get this straight. In most states, if my daughter went to the ER, they would need my permission before doing anything short of a life saving proceedure, but a school can provide a perscription w/o my knowledge or consent?

My daughter cant take a Midol to school w/o an act of congress, but THEY can give her a pill w/o telling me?

I am legally responsible for my childs actions because she isnt old enough to make good decisions, but she could make this decision w/o me? Providing condoms is one thing, giving my kid a perscription is entirely another.

I think that middle school is WAY to early for this. If the child is of an age where he/she is legally responsible for their actions (i.e. old enough to get arrested and charged as an adult) then perhaps they should be able to make these decisons. 11-12-13 yo? I dont think so.

 

[Seeking Zen]

I was just watching this debate on the news....and apparently if you do provide persmission for your child to use the health centre they cannot use the centre for standard medical purposes...scrapped knee, Tylenol ect...

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I was just watching this debate on the news....and apparently if you do provide persmission for your child to use the health centre they cannot use the centre for standard medical purposes...scrapped knee, Tylenol ect...

So its all (pills) or nothing (no band-aids)???

 

[Andy Moynihan]

All my dad had to do was utter one sentence to keep me out of trouble at that age:

"You make me a grandfather, I'll kill you".

 

[MJS]

Ok...

Wrong...period! There is no rationalization of this. Why don't we just put a target on our 10-11yr olds head? Yes, what message does this send hormone raging 14-18 yr olds boys? Is this not saying it's ok to have sex with 10-11yr olds??? What message is this sending to pedophiles? It must be ok, there giving them birth control. If you think that is far fetched you’re dreaming!

But what message is smoking and drinking sending? What about the sexual content we see daily on public tv? Like I have said...not advocating 13 yr olds jumping into the bed, but a) education and b) having the protection.

Onto health, birth control doesn't prevent disease. So why, why pills...there is NO point, contraceptives prevent pregnancy and disease. So what possible validation can be used for the pill? Other than to encourage sexual behaviour.

I don't think anything is being encouraged. The pill, like condoms are preventing pregnancy. I've also said that I don't think its wise for the school to get involved with pills. That, IMHO, should be coming from a doctor.

Questions ....Providing a 11yr old child with alcohol: Illegal (you would be charged in a snap)

Can an 11yr vote: no
Would you let your 10-11yr old wander the streets alone, go on transit alone: I hope not.
Is an 11yr old responsible enough to decide for themselves to drop out of school, leave home...would you allow someone else to make the decision for them and support being forbidden from that discussion and decision etc:

THERE IS NO REASONABLE ARGUMENT FOR THIS!!!! PERIOD it’s a child!

Finally WHERE ARE THE PARENTS???????!!!!!!! That this could possibly be and issue?

You're right. The parents should be taking some responsibility. However, look at the stats. If the parents were doing their job, perhaps there wouldn't be so many people with kids they can't support. But like I said, not educating, pretending that things like this won't/don't happen, is a mistake as well.

Another thought...how many of these young girls now having the pill will
ensure there "partner" is using a condom. I would guess next to none. Providing the pill is pointless. I stops pregnacy, that's it. So I fail to see where this policy is about protecting anyone or solving any problem. Other than a young girls worry of getting caught.

Well, we don't know if they'll use both, we can only speculate.

 

[grydth]

Let me get this straight. In most states, if my daughter went to the ER, they would need my permission before doing anything short of a life saving proceedure, but a school can provide a perscription w/o my knowledge or consent?

My daughter cant take a Midol to school w/o an act of congress, but THEY can give her a pill w/o telling me?

I am legally responsible for my childs actions because she isnt old enough to make good decisions, but she could make this decision w/o me? Providing condoms is one thing, giving my kid a perscription is entirely another.

I think that middle school is WAY to early for this. If the child is of an age where he/she is legally responsible for their actions (i.e. old enough to get arrested and charged as an adult) then perhaps they should be able to make these decisons. 11-12-13 yo? I dont think so.

You have to love the quality of life in the coming NAMBLA Nation. If we send a Motrin to school with the kid, she'll get suspended under the same 'zero tolerance' as an illicit drug dealer... but it's okay for the school itself to give her a pill that facilitates a felony. Make sense?

Speaking of the "they're going to do it anyway" philosophy, why indeed not have the school nurse also 'prescribe' pot or meth? The girls are probably much safer smoking a joint than they are having sex with Lord knows what. You can't get AIDS, syph or pregnant from pot. What else should be given out to pre teens under this nutty philosophy - guns? alcohol? car keys?

Should the schools have a staff pederast to break these tender young girls in the right way? Can they get gym credit for sexual acrobatics? Will photos make the year book?

If we who would defend our 12 year olds are prudish, with outdated morals... then pray tell what age is too early.... if any? When should my 9 year old start learning how to perform oral sex? Before or after all her baby teeth fall out? I mean, she's "going to do it anyway", right?

I wonder if the schools will be providing anyone to simply tell the girls - Do not do it! You are way too young!

I suspect our much maligned legal system will put a stop to this. When some 11 year old shows up pregnant and with AIDS, I'm guessing a record setting lawsuit (hopefully with parents on the jury) will discourage this abomination via punitive damages. I'm thinking ye olde skool nurse may just find herself getting arrested for facilitating child abuse in a few jurisdictions.

Well, you know angry parents, aggressive police and predatory lawyers - when it comes to something like this, well - THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY.

 

[grydth]

Well, I just received an anonymous negative rep! Imagine that.

Yeah, I'd want to be unknown if I had to say what you did, you coward.

If "distorted views" are protecting my 9 and 12 year old daughters from sexual predation and exploitation, then give me a red star.

 

[MJS]

Well, I just received an anonymous negative rep! Imagine that.

Yeah, I'd want to be unknown if I had to say what you did, you coward.

If "distorted views" are protecting my 9 and 12 year old daughters from sexual predation and exploitation, then give me a red star.

If you're having a rep issue, feel free to contact an Admin to look into it for you.

As far as the thread goes...IMO, I think its human nature to think that things won't happen to them. I don't see how sheltering a child is going to protect them from the bad things in the world. Again, I'm not advocating teens jumping into bed, but are you going to follow your children around anytime they leave the house? Do you leave your kids alone in your house for any extended period of time?

In your opinion, what is the right age to educate them?

 

[grydth]

Oh, I'm not asking Admin for help. I not only want the despicablr thing left there, but I'd like all others of this individual's low ilk to add their neg reps as well. It shows 'em for what they are.

Please see post#29, where I made it quite clear that I have not "sheltered" my 12 year old from sex eduaction. Quite the opposite. But teaching them about life is a far, far thing from equipping - and encouraging - them to commit acts which are felonious and which could ruin or end their life. They deserve a chance to enjoy childhood... and to be protected.

Unlike any of you, I suspect, I have prosecuted child molesters. So please don't patronize me with the "I don't imagine" stuff.... No sir, I don't imagine, I don't need to - because I have seen the real thing.

There's another side of this, which I haven't seen mentioned, and that is the sexual exploitation of (too) young girls. Men have all sorts of pressure tactics to coerce girls into bed. How the Hell do you all know "the girl would do it anyway"? More likely. if some people would step up and be parents and 'school nurses', they'd react with, " He said/did WHAT to try to get you to sleep with him?"....... and teach the young girl she's way too valuable to be exploited like that.

The day standing up for the rights of preteens not to be sexually and illegally exploited is "distorted values" is the day I hope to die.

 

[MJS]

Oh, I'm not asking Admin for help. I not only want the despicablr thing left there, but I'd like all others of this individual's low ilk to add their neg reps as well. It shows 'em for what they are.

Thats fine. Just trying to explain the proper channels to take, as complaining about it in the thread is not the option to take.

Please see post#29, where I made it quite clear that I have not "sheltered" my 12 year old from sex eduaction. Quite the opposite. But teaching them about life is a far, far thing from equipping - and encouraging - them to commit acts which are felonious and which could ruin or end their life. They deserve a chance to enjoy childhood... and to be protected.

Encouraging? Who is encouraging? And I'd rather have my child 'equipped' and never need it, than to need it and not have it. You know your children better than I, but I get the impression that you feel as if all kids are going to be raised like yours. Sorry, but thats not the case.

Unlike any of you, I suspect, I have prosecuted child molesters. So please don't patronize me with the "I don't imagine" stuff.... No sir, I don't imagine, I don't need to - because I have seen the real thing.

No, you're right, Im not a lawyer or prosecutor. However, it is my impression that you're letting your profession get the better of you and its certainly showing in this thread. Additionally, we're not talking about child molesters, we're talking about 2 teens having sex. Someone forcing a child to have sex, and 2 15 yr olds fooling around is 2 different things.

There's another side of this, which I haven't seen mentioned, and that is the sexual exploitation of (too) young girls. Men have all sorts of pressure tactics to coerce girls into bed. How the Hell do you all know "the girl would do it anyway"? More likely. if some people would step up and be parents and 'school nurses', they'd react with, " He said/did WHAT to try to get you to sleep with him?"....... and teach the young girl she's way too valuable to be exploited like that.

Bold part mine. All the more reason to make protection available to them. If the guy is going to say things to the girl to make her think that he really likes her, when in reality hes interested in only one thing, I'd rather her have a condom, than end up having sex with this guy, get pregnant, and theres another kid being raised by a kid.

 

[grydth]

You're making an assumption that it's "two teens" having sex. Most often in my experience, its a significantly older boy.... and sixth and seventh grade girls are commonly preteens, way below the legal age of consent.

Instead of pharmaceuticals and devices, why don't we instead provide them good guidance? How about female counselors to assure them they need not give in to slick lines, they need not be pressured into becoming 11 year old sexploitation objects. Anybody else think their daughters are worth just a little more than that?

 

[tellner]

I referred to a radio interview with the nurse who started the whole controversy. Another thing which was significant is that the school board vote was almost unanimous in approving the final measure. The school nurse's clinic, according to the piece, is the only medical care to which many (most?) of the students have access.

This is not just a matter of some over-bearing government agency stepping beyond the bounds of reason. It's a facility which has been burdened with more health care responsibilities than it ought which made a decision as how best to serve its students. From what the nurse said it was not easy, but it reflected the reality she has to deal with - sexually active girls who have no other access to health care advice or contraception. It is true that permission can be faked, but as someone pointed out the students most likely to do that are the ones without active parents. We will see what safeguards they put in place to help insure against that.