You're right, there are things put into play in everyday life, that are meant to prevent or slow things from happening, but unfortunately, things still happen. Lets see: Seed bumps designed to slow vehicles, yet people show no regard for the suspension of their vehicle and drive right over them. Bouncers at the door of clubs and bars checking IDs, yet people sneak in with fake IDs all the time. LEOs conduct radar set ups, which they do catch speeders and are a visual deterrant, yet once they leave, people go right back to speeding.
6th graders may get birth control pills in school?
- Thread starter Ceicei
- Start date
You're right, there are things put into play in everyday life, that are meant to prevent or slow things from happening, but unfortunately, things still happen. Lets see: Seed bumps designed to slow vehicles, yet people show no regard for the suspension of their vehicle and drive right over them. Bouncers at the door of clubs and bars checking IDs, yet people sneak in with fake IDs all the time. LEOs conduct radar set ups, which they do catch speeders and are a visual deterrant, yet once they leave, people go right back to speeding.
grydth
Senior Master
Yes, it is a sincere comment. When I take a slash at someone, it'll always be readily apparent. I have seen those who are so cute with words that nobody gets it - so what then is the point?
I do not take from your positions here that you are a NAMBLA advocate in any way or that you think sex with 10 year olds is a dandy thing. You appear to believe that another course, as Maine has adopted, will mitigate the harm that is inevitable.
Feel free to disagree with me anytime, on any topic.
But you should be clear on one thing as well.... I do not engage in "wishing" or "dreaming". A quarter century in my line of work has shown me things that most never see, and those memories won't go away. I saw things in the Army I would not have believed possible. It is precisely because I have seen that much evil, and the horrific motives that produce those crimes, that I say we have to take a stand. I know the child predators for what they are, and I've seen what rape and sexual abuse do physically and mentally to the victims. That is why I will protect my children by any means necessary.
So now we understand each other. I am done on this thread.
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2005
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A 10-11 yo shouldnt be having sex. Schools should be teaching that. I have a 10 yo girl. I cant imagine how she could ever be in a situation where she would be with a boy unsupervised long enough for this to happen.
Maybe thats the real issue. If your 10-11 yo is running around unsupervised and having sex, perhaps YOU should be looked at by child protective services.
Maybe thats the real issue. If your 10-11 yo is running around unsupervised and having sex, perhaps YOU should be looked at by child protective services.
Thank you for the clarification.
Sir, while it seems that you and I are disagreeing, it is my opinion, that we are, in some ways, more on the same page that it appears. I think its safe to say that we both agree that kids at the age being discussed here, is very wrong. We agree that the parents should play a very active role in the education of our children. Frankly, I'm not too impressed, as I've said in other posts, with having to support kids that kids have.
Nothing wrong with wanting to protect our kids. However, IMO, I think that being over-protective isn't good either. At some point in their lives, they should be given some freedom, without asking them 20 questions as to their destination. Its possible that by keeping such tight reigns on them, that at some point, it may lead to them showing some rebelious behavior. Maybe, maybe not, just a thought though.
Oh come on now...you know this is too good a topic to be done with.
But hey, if you really are in fact done, nice debating with you. 
CoryKS
Senior Master
Uh-oh: School health centers didn't report underage sex
Seems that Maine already has a law about this sort of thing, and it was supposed to be reported:
Seems that Maine already has a law about this sort of thing, and it was supposed to be reported:
Hmmm....one would think that the people who decided to issue birthcontrol pills, would've known about this law prior. Looks like someone messed up somewhere.
- Thread Starter
- #108
From that article Cory linked, it says:
Would the decrease in comfort level give young people pause to consider their decision in having sex early? Maybe this might give them an added incentive not to have sex if they are aware their sexual activity would be reported. On the other hand, they're likely to go "underground" if sexual behavior is something they intend on doing.
- Ceicei
Would the decrease in comfort level give young people pause to consider their decision in having sex early? Maybe this might give them an added incentive not to have sex if they are aware their sexual activity would be reported. On the other hand, they're likely to go "underground" if sexual behavior is something they intend on doing.
- Ceicei
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Whoa... I think that is where the debate turns retarded, and the lawmakers take things too far.
1st off, it is my understanding that there are quite a few women (and young girls) that need the pill for health reasons, such as women with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, so it wouldn't be fair to prosecute these people.
But that aside, I think that there is a line. The school shouldn't be obligated to prescribe the pill to teenagers, as I do think that it becomes an enabler for those who would have underage sex for one, and for two there is too much risk involved with the pill to begin with (possible side effects ranging from hormone problems to infertility). Not to mention, ethical and moral concerns of allowing underage girls to bypass their parents through the schools. I just think that there is a line, and that the nurse and school staff and board members that condone offering the pill through the school system to underage teens have crossed it.
However, I think it is also across the line the other way to have it be illegal for underage teens to get birth control. I am of the opinion that these decisions should involve the girl and family and medical community, not the legal system.
You can't have it both ways. You can't expect teen pregnancy rates to go down while taking away the means for teens to protect against that. Sure, teach abstinence as a fundamental principle in school and at home, but preventing access to other measures in over the line.
1st off, it is my understanding that there are quite a few women (and young girls) that need the pill for health reasons, such as women with Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, so it wouldn't be fair to prosecute these people.
But that aside, I think that there is a line. The school shouldn't be obligated to prescribe the pill to teenagers, as I do think that it becomes an enabler for those who would have underage sex for one, and for two there is too much risk involved with the pill to begin with (possible side effects ranging from hormone problems to infertility). Not to mention, ethical and moral concerns of allowing underage girls to bypass their parents through the schools. I just think that there is a line, and that the nurse and school staff and board members that condone offering the pill through the school system to underage teens have crossed it.
However, I think it is also across the line the other way to have it be illegal for underage teens to get birth control. I am of the opinion that these decisions should involve the girl and family and medical community, not the legal system.
You can't have it both ways. You can't expect teen pregnancy rates to go down while taking away the means for teens to protect against that. Sure, teach abstinence as a fundamental principle in school and at home, but preventing access to other measures in over the line.
Agreed.
Great point. IMO, people hear the words 'birth control pill' and assume that it means that they're having or going to have sex.
Agreed on both points. As I said earlier, if anything was to be given it would make more sense for condoms, rather than something that needs to come from a doctor.
Funny how people, in this case the legal system, always get involved in other peoples business.
Yup, and this goes back to what I said about people kidding themselves or wishing, hoping, etc. that things like this don't happen.
Saw this today.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21577133/
Doesnt seem to be related to the original article posted here, but still relevant. While skimming this, I saw a few interesting comments.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21577133/
Doesnt seem to be related to the original article posted here, but still relevant. While skimming this, I saw a few interesting comments.
- Thread Starter
- #113
An update to this thread:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24205628/
I wonder if this is a "solution to a non-existent problem" or if they are staying away for reasons not mentioned.
- Ceicei
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24205628/
I wonder if this is a "solution to a non-existent problem" or if they are staying away for reasons not mentioned.
- Ceicei
I teach in a middle school - one where, I might add, several 8th grade girls are currently pregnant. Nonetheless, I have a problem with this program, for several reasons:
- unless there is education prior to services, how will students that age (who are notoriously of the "it can't happen to me" mindset) even know when they are at risk for pregnancy, to know to go get contraceptions? And yet, knowing the restrictions on sex ed in my school... I have doubts that the average middle school girl will know when to go
- there are medical conditions and medications that are contra-indicative for various types of contraceptives - but I know college students who are unaware of which medications they take or for what; how could middle school students be expected to be able to give the clinic a full medical history?
- if the child is sufficiently concerned about telling a parent that she goes to this clinic for birth control - what might happen to the child if she takes contraceptives home and the parents find them?
- granting that children this age are generally unable to raise children properly - how likely are they to recognize medical side effects of contraceptives should they occur?
- if the girl is taken to the doctor by her parent, who tells the doctor that of course the girl is not on contraceptives - the doctor could recommend a course of treatment that is contra-indicated when the person is taking contraceptives
I understand the rationale behind making contraceptives available in this fashion - but I am concerned that one of the above issues (or others) may arise, leading to more repercussions more severe than the provision of contraceptives is intended to solve.
- unless there is education prior to services, how will students that age (who are notoriously of the "it can't happen to me" mindset) even know when they are at risk for pregnancy, to know to go get contraceptions? And yet, knowing the restrictions on sex ed in my school... I have doubts that the average middle school girl will know when to go
- there are medical conditions and medications that are contra-indicative for various types of contraceptives - but I know college students who are unaware of which medications they take or for what; how could middle school students be expected to be able to give the clinic a full medical history?
- if the child is sufficiently concerned about telling a parent that she goes to this clinic for birth control - what might happen to the child if she takes contraceptives home and the parents find them?
- granting that children this age are generally unable to raise children properly - how likely are they to recognize medical side effects of contraceptives should they occur?
- if the girl is taken to the doctor by her parent, who tells the doctor that of course the girl is not on contraceptives - the doctor could recommend a course of treatment that is contra-indicated when the person is taking contraceptives
I understand the rationale behind making contraceptives available in this fashion - but I am concerned that one of the above issues (or others) may arise, leading to more repercussions more severe than the provision of contraceptives is intended to solve.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
There is no WAY the state should be handing out birth control to kids, and remember this, this was for 6th graders, thats on average, a 12 or 13 year old.
Ok, as has already been stated, these are prescription drugs. A doctors exam is required. HOW can the school give them out without an exam? What doctor would write that prescription without an exam??
And with liability issues being what they are, what doctor in his/her right mind is going to do an exam on a 12 year old without parental consent?
Plus, in many states, there is no such thing as "legal" sex for a 13 year old.
Ok, as has already been stated, these are prescription drugs. A doctors exam is required. HOW can the school give them out without an exam? What doctor would write that prescription without an exam??
And with liability issues being what they are, what doctor in his/her right mind is going to do an exam on a 12 year old without parental consent?
Plus, in many states, there is no such thing as "legal" sex for a 13 year old.
ArmorOfGod
Senior Master
I work at a middle school, and they are bumping like bunnies. Also, they are very open about it and open about having multiple partners.
Think of it: they go home to their thrice married parents and then turn on the ultra-over-sexed tv shows that is all that is on television, then they turn on the radio at any time of the day and hear amazingly sexual and graphic songs.
Challenge: google the lyrics to any r&b/rap/rock song that is popular right now.
I don't think the school system should hand the pills out though. Let the parents deal with their failure, not the school system.
AoG
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