5 reasons TaeKwonDo as a system (not individual techniques) breaks down in a Muay Thai ring

[Axiom]

Bollux, I don't care who said it. There is nothing wrong with asking for money for delivering a product or service. I don't know where this idea originally came from. Overcharging for it - or underdelivering against your promises - is a bad thing. Getting paid for what you do is not (and that's from someone who makes no money from teaching).


I still disagree with this - it somehow presupposes that mastery of an art is somehow linked to poverty. It is also at odds with the previous two statements, since it clearly suggests it's okay to ask for enough to survive.

I guess because Choi didn't need the money from his pupils to survive, he did not accept any. This is a perfectly consistent statement. I think General Choi had a real budo spirit in this regard.

 

[Gnarlie]

I guess because Choi didn't need the money from his pupils to survive, he did not accept any. This is a perfectly consistent statement. I think General Choi had a real budo spirit in this regard.

And maybe state backing or a private fortune. Money has to come from somewhere. How did he fund his events / travel / publishing etc?

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[Gerry Seymour]

I guess because Choi didn't need the money from his pupils to survive, he did not accept any. This is a perfectly consistent statement. I think General Choi had a real budo spirit in this regard.

If by that you mean he had other income, it's pretty easy to say you shouldn't take money if you don't need any. That has nothing to do with budo.

 

[Gnarlie]

If by that you mean he had other income, it's pretty easy to say you shouldn't take money if you don't need any. That has nothing to do with budo.

The guy travelled the world 2 thirds of each year when he was pushing the ITF. Where did that money come from. He doesn't say he never took money.

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[Axiom]

If by that you mean he had other income, it's pretty easy to say you shouldn't take money if you don't need any.

Pretty easy if you are assuming his income was conciderable, which you don't know anything about. All accounts point to Choi living a very simple life to the time he died and that the psychological traumas under occupation affected his eating patterns.

 

[Gnarlie]

Pretty easy if you are assuming his income was conciderable, which you don't know anything about. All accounts point to Choi living a very simple life to the time he died and that the psychological traumas under occupation affected his eating patterns.

Travelling the world 250 days of the year is neither simple nor cheap. All accounts. Pfft.

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[Gnarlie]

"I go around and tell masters that they must not force the disciples to do something the masters do not like to do. If it is necessary to ask a disciple to do something, suppose for example you want to renovate your a house, and the disciple is the only person who can do the work, then pay him. Nothing is free. Even though I have tought a great number of disciples in my lifetime, I never wanted to receive any money from that – I swear by Heaven. Therefoe I can call them disciples. If I receive money from teaching at a dojang, it is not a true dojang, it is just a business like any other. If you want to become a great master, and perpetruate your name, do not ask for money more that you need for survival. Sometimes I say the masters that when a bird builds a nest, it does not need the whole tree, it only needs a branch, where a small nest can be built."

There's the quote in context. He says nothing about not taking money, only about not wanting to.



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[Gerry Seymour]

Pretty easy if you are assuming his income was conciderable, which you don't know anything about. All accounts point to Choi living a very simple life to the time he died and that the psychological traumas under occupation affected his eating patterns.

He still had to have income from somewhere. That's the point.

 

[Gnarlie]

Pretty easy if you are assuming his income was conciderable, which you don't know anything about.

Neither do you, but evidence (the fact that he was able to travel so much for one factor) points to a significant source of cash, whether it be from TKD or otherwise.

It is difficult for a poor person to refer to the sky as their home. Which he did.



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[Gnarlie]

Time to change the subject again, no?

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[Axiom]

He still had to have income from somewhere. That's the point.

You only have a point if Choi was rich and wouldn't notice any difference if the students payed him or not. Choi was to the best of my knowledge not rich and would have enjoyed the money.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You only have a point if Choi was rich and wouldn't notice any difference if the students payed him or not. Choi was to the best of my knowledge not rich and would have enjoyed the money.

Nothing in my statement assumes he was rich. It only assumes he had enough money for what he wanted to do. In his case, that meant extensive travel to other countries. Whether that money was his or someone else's is irrelevant - he had all he needed.

 

[Axiom]

Nothing in my statement assumes he was rich. It only assumes he had enough money for what he wanted to do. In his case, that meant extensive travel to other countries. Whether that money was his or someone else's is irrelevant - he had all he needed.

Many people, especially in the United States, would have exploited the situation as the founder of the martial art and charged for private lessons.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Many people, especially in the United States, would have exploited the situation as the founder of the martial art and charged for private lessons.

Many probably would. And what's your point?

 

[Gnarlie]

Some interesting points here from the late GM Al Cole 9th Dan, a former contributor to this site and a person known for tracking down the pioneers of our art and obtaining what information he could first hand. That money had to come from somewhere....

Taekwondo - Revolution

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[Martial D]

It erodes the purity of the art.

How? If I show you a technique, what does it matter if I did it for free or for 1 million dollars? It's the same technique either way.

Would it work better if I had less money in my savings than if I had more? Do elaborate.

 

[TrueJim]

You only have a point if Choi was rich...

Sir, are you assuming that Jhoon Rhee became rich via taekwondo?

I have never met Grandmaster Rhee, but I know people who know him. I've had his home pointed-out to me as we've driven past. Grandmaster Rhee lives in a modest condo in the suburbs of DC. The school he started is now run by his son. Being in his mid-80s now, Grandmaster Rhee himself is long-ago retired.

Regardless of what outrageous fees the president of your federation in Eastern Europe is charging for handing-out belts like candy, that money has not been going to Jhoon Rhee in the USA. As one of the early pioneers of taekwondo, Grandmaster Rhee lived a life of service to the martial arts, and despite your ill-conceived preconceptions, doing so did not make Rhee wealthy, unless you count as riches the gratitude he received from generations of devoted students.

If you count General Choi as an ideal for how a taekwondo life should be lived, then your ire should not be targeted at Grandmaster Rhee, who was -- when all is said and done -- cut from much the same cloth.

I am sorry you are unhappy with your taekwondo education; I am sorry you are unhappy with the president of your federation. But those are not good reasons to slander people who have never done you any harm, and indeed who have done the world a lot of good.

 

[JR 137]

Why put it in my own words when someone else has said it so much more articulately...

 

[TrueJim]

If by that you mean he had other income, it's pretty easy to say you shouldn't take money if you don't need any.

When he established his kwan, General Choi was paid in Monopoly money, as was the tradition at that time for officers in the South Korean military. Things improved considerably for Choi during his development of the Chang Hon teul -- at that time, South Korean Ambassadors to Malaysia were paid in 10%-off coupons for Outback Steak House.

#armyofficer #governmentemployee #bloominonion

 

[Dirty Dog]

Many people, especially in the United States, would have exploited the situation as the founder of the martial art and charged for private lessons.

Feel free to spend your life in sackcloth and ashes. I hope the loud exhaust from my Corvette doesn't interfere with your ability to sleep under the bridge.