20 Kids

[Sukerkin]

Which is absolutely fine.

I am speaking of a broader canvas than that. The world is a finite place and we have to 'fit' ourselves to it as a species or we'll pay the price collectively for individual lack of restraint.

 

[billc]

The world is a huge place, and the more advanced a society becomes, for example Europe, the fewer children they tend to have. One family with twenty kids is not a big deal and is hardly the norm so it may be a long time before we start eating Soylent Green, which I hear is quite tasty and nutritious. I usually have soylent green with peanut butter.

 

[MJS]

Ultimately, what this family does, isn't effecting me. IMO, I think its in poor taste to do a book, reality show, whatever, to draw interest, which ultimately draws money. If there is a book or show on them, I'm not interested...lol. As for her health issues...well, thats not something to take lightly, IMO. I mean, I think its important to take your health as well as the health of the baby you're brining into the world, into consideration, and if that means not having yet another child or one with some serious medical issues, well, thats a no brainer.

Sometimes, I can't help but to think that when people do certain things, they're doing it for the sole reason of bringing attention to themselves.

 

[Carol]

I don't believe the Duggars are Catholic...

But, as I understand it, there is a religious aspect. They are (very) conservative Christians.

And they more or less manage to pay their way through their own business and living frugally. I'm sure that proceeds from their book, and the tv shows helped (including, according to what I've just looked up, helping finish their house and stock the pantry...), but unlike Kate Gosselin, they haven't dropped life for reality tv.

(My wife is very much interested in both... I've absorbed more about them than I want to think about...)

It was a random Monty Python comment.

The Duggars are of an evangelical Protestant movement called Quiverfull.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull

 

[granfire]

I don't mind it on the telly, I can not put it on but when the Geordie women come down to Catterick looking for sqauddies I can't avoid them! They drink, fight, strip, shag and eventually puke in the street, great fun.

LOL, yeah we had a place like that, at least it had a cheap Motel next door.

And it was out in the country....
Fun clientel to work with....

 

[Tez3]

One thing that affects us in the UK is that as our population ages if we don't have the young people because not so many are being born we face not having enough people paying tax to keep the country running! We could end up a country populated by old people either fading away in poverty or having to work until they die! At least if this family grows up and goes out to work there will still be tax payers in the future and someone to look after the old codgers!

 

[granfire]

One thing that affects us in the UK is that as our population ages if we don't have the young people because not so many are being born we face not having enough people paying tax to keep the country running! We could end up a country populated by old people either fading away in poverty or having to work until they die! At least if this family grows up and goes out to work there will still be tax payers in the future and someone to look after the old codgers!

I am sure there will be enough young folks from the Commonwealth to fill the void, although they won't adhere to the British phenotype...

Same for Germany though. All those folks that 'returned home' after the Iron Curtain fell were a good thing.

 

[Tez3]

I am sure there will be enough young folks from the Commonwealth to fill the void, although they won't adhere to the British phenotype...

Same for Germany though. All those folks that 'returned home' after the Iron Curtain fell were a good thing.

The Commonwealth countries are independant of the UK and I'm not sure that asking the Aussies and Kiwis to contribute would go down well.

 

[Cyriacus]

Way to be Happy about Contributing to Overpopulation.

...All Malign Comments aside, why.

 

[granfire]

The Commonwealth countries are independant of the UK and I'm not sure that asking the Aussies and Kiwis to contribute would go down well.

LOL
Silly Tez....
No, those countries with a surplus of young people.
After a couple of generations the British people would not look like cooked Lobster on the beaches of Mallorca anymore.

I mean, Germany had a huge influx of people from Rumania and Russia....all with a claim to nationality, even though their people left the Vaterland over 200 years ago.

But I saw an interesting piece on German TV a while back regarding the state sponsored retirement programs:
While it is true that less people pay into it, the less people make more money, so it all evens out.

 

[Tez3]

LOL
Silly Tez....
No, those countries with a surplus of young people.
After a couple of generations the British people would not look like cooked Lobster on the beaches of Mallorca anymore.

I mean, Germany had a huge influx of people from Rumania and Russia....all with a claim to nationality, even though their people left the Vaterland over 200 years ago.

But I saw an interesting piece on German TV a while back regarding the state sponsored retirement programs:
While it is true that less people pay into it, the less people make more money, so it all evens out.

Sadly we are getting the young people of the Commonwealth killed in Afghanistan.

 

[granfire]

Sadly we are getting the young people of the Commonwealth killed in Afghanistan.

Ah, true enough.

 

[sfs982000]

I think once you get beyond four they all start taking care of each other.

I had three. Felt like six.

As for reality TV, perhaps it's the only way they'll ever be able to feed them.

You bring up a good point, I wonder how much of the reality show was a factor in them deciding to have another baby. I know that talking with friends that also come from big families that the older siblings had a big hand in helping to take care of the younger ones.

 

[decepticon]

I doubt that the reality show was much of a defining factor regarding the Duggars' family choices. From the few interviews I have seen, their religious beliefs play the determining role. However I am sure the tv show income has been a help to their financial bottom line. It does appear that they live a modest lifestyle rather than a financially extravagant one, and that they also are involved in charitable work in Central America.

Re the population issues, that is hard for me to get on board with. I fully believe that most of the problems plaguing our planet are due to greed, not population numbers. As has been shown in several nations, enough food is not the issue - distribution is. Population does not cause corporations to dump their waste into the oceans and rivers, greed and thoughtlessness does. Even if the earth's population was much smaller, there would still be those whose actions would endanger the planet.

It is even harder for me to comprehend population as the problem, since I look out my back door onto approximately 30,000 acres of undeveloped forest land. When on my way to MA class, I wonder why so much traffic if I pass more than 2 cars on the 8 mile stretch between my home and the paved road. Yes, I have spent time in various cities, but I still think there is room for everyone.

 

[cdunn]

There are problems with the Quiverfull-style family beyond overpopulation. These kids wind up foreigners in their own countries, and enthralled to their parents. These tiny cults raise some deeply injured people.

 

[Sukerkin]

Re the population issues, that is hard for me to get on board with. I fully believe that most of the problems plaguing our planet are due to greed, not population numbers. As has been shown in several nations, enough food is not the issue - distribution is. Population does not cause corporations to dump their waste into the oceans and rivers, greed and thoughtlessness does. Even if the earth's population was much smaller, there would still be those whose actions would endanger the planet.

It is even harder for me to comprehend population as the problem, since I look out my back door onto approximately 30,000 acres of undeveloped forest land. When on my way to MA class, I wonder why so much traffic if I pass more than 2 cars on the 8 mile stretch between my home and the paved road. Yes, I have spent time in various cities, but I still think there is room for everyone.

Overpopulation is indeed a very big and very real problem, decepticon.

It's not a question of how many of us can we fit into a given area as much as it is how many of us can a given area sustain. This is a problem that will only amplify as the developing nations become more fully industrialised and their resource consumption reaches American levels.

I envy you your rural idyll but the (enviable) lack of humans in your vicinity is perhaps colouring your views on the over-population problem.

 

[decepticon]

As they say in these parts, "I have been to the city and I have seen the elephant...", but you are probably right, my current location may be influencing my thinking.

Actually I lived in Mexico City, one of the largest cities in the world, for a while back in the 1980's and have also spent some time in Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paolo. And I have seen all the nearly vacant land surrounding those cities. And the starvation of the people within them. Again, I see the primary problems of greed and uneven distribution being more prominent than that of over population.

When I worked as a marine biologist, I had occasion to visit some of the smaller Caribbean islands for work. Deforestation and pollution originated with the greedy 1% who refused to work with residents to come up with other options than those for dealing with the demands of daily life. It did not originate with the original residents - they had existed quite well in much larger numbers prior to the arrival of Columbus, when they could manage the local resources themselves.

 

[Sukerkin]

I don't disagree, DC, there is always more that can be done to manage resources more efficiently and with an eye on the long view. All I was alluding too is that there is a limit to how many humans the planet can provide for when we are speaking of a 'Western' life style. Sadly, we, in the First World, already exceed the Earth's capacity in that regard - that's why I say it is only going to get worse as other countries demand their slice of the pie too.

Which in turn is why we have to get the global population stabalised and at a lower level than now, let alone the horrific projections of numbers for the near future. If we don't do it ourselves then the planet will do it for us.

 

[MJS]

Population will vary from state to state. My point of this thread wasn't really to discuss population issues in various states, but simply to talk about how someone could financially wise, support a family with that many people, without some sort of outside assistance. IMO, when you put your beliefs before the well being of the children that didn't ask to be born, but that you're bringing into the world, that isn't right.

As for whether or not the show was a defining factor....I have no idea, but its a no brainer when the tv shows see a potential cash cow. No, I dont think that the family said, "Gee, if we pump out kid after kid after kid after kid, maybe, just maybe, we'll hit paydirt and get on a reality show." But I'm sure they didnt turn down any offers either.

Anyone know what the parents do for a living?

If we look at land, undeveloped land, well, is there really such a thing? I mean, seems like any undeveloped land nowadays, is quickly scooped up and new houses, condos, senior living, etc, are being built. What happens when there is no more undeveloped land for the ever increasing population?

 

[JohnEdward]

I think it is irresponsible to have 20 kids, I have that in my family lineage. It is irresponsible especially since we are well out of the Victorian model of raising children of seen but not heard, and spare the rod (literally) spoil the child. Today we know so much more of what children needs are and their requirements to live happy and productive lives. There is allot of demands are requirements that go into raising children. It is fair to all those kids, how can two people possible raise all of them by today's standards, giving them enough love and individual attention and all their needs met. We are not having kids to work the farm anymore.