1st degree/dan black belt teaching??

[Gerry Seymour]

Average time for 1st dan is 10-12 years... whew! That is a good illustration of what the different ranks "mean" to the art being practiced. Honestly, knowing the local aikikai folks here in Houston, I'd say the rankings here are either easier.... or they are way better, as they're done in the 6-8 year category (yes I'm just poking).

Tomiki aikido is based on the judo ranking structure, but where the judo curriculum is the gokyu-no-waza (40) techniques, or the shiny new USJA 67 techniques I think it is, I can never remember that one, a strange artifact of this judo rank philosophy is that in Tomiki aikido, we progress really dern quick to shodan. Average is 2, 3 years. Of course, all this means is that you know the basic techniques, know what the principles "are," even if you don't really undertand what they "mean" and "why" they are there.... so you get to this basic level of understanding and then rank progression slows Waaayyyy down. It is not uncommon to fin a tomiki class with 2 or 3 color belts, 6 or 8 black belts and 1 to 3 candy-striper belts indicating rokudan or above. Like I said, an artifact.

A good way to figure out what level of skill someone has, though not really infallible, is "How long you been doing that?"

Someone says, "I've been in judo 15 years," you get the idea. Swap in different martial art name, and you get the same idea. That would be, they probably know their stuff.

I'd agree that time-in-training is a better measure between styles (and even associations) than the color of their belt. In the NGAA, one could technically reach shodan in 3 years. I know of only one case where this happened, and both he and his instructor said afterward it was too soon. Most take at least twice that. I've had instructors who looked down on styles that awarded a black belt in a couple of years. I've come to an understanding that they just have a different approach. It's all good, and most folks who have understanding come back to the time-in-training question eventually.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Actually most BJJ tournaments have divisions based on belt level, so typically a purple belt wouldn't be up against brown belts (except in no-gi, where they would be lumped together in the advanced division.) More likely the requirement was for him to medal in the purple belt division and hang with the brown belts when rolling at the academy. That's one approach to promotions. It's not universal, but it's not uncommon either.

I like that approach, actually. If I had enough students, that would be my requirement for promotion to brown, at least.

 

[JP3]

Actually most BJJ tournaments have divisions based on belt level, so typically a purple belt wouldn't be up against brown belts (except in no-gi, where they would be lumped together in the advanced division.) More likely the requirement was for him to medal in the purple belt division and hang with the brown belts when rolling at the academy. That's one approach to promotions. It's not universal, but it's not uncommon either.

Tony, I had thought that myself, but his impression was certainly that he was expected to roll "up rank" at the tournament, and at least do well, perhaps not win, to get his next promo. I've no idea, I didn't go with him.

It was Naga, I think in Dallas-Ft. Worth? Like I said, I didn't go.

NAGA Submission Grappling, BJJ Tournaments & Reality Fighting - NagaFighter.com

Maybe my answer is in there, that link above.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Tony, I had thought that myself, but his impression was certainly that he was expected to roll "up rank" at the tournament, and at least do well, perhaps not win, to get his next promo. I've no idea, I didn't go with him.

It was Naga, I think in Dallas-Ft. Worth? Like I said, I didn't go.

NAGA Submission Grappling, BJJ Tournaments & Reality Fighting - NagaFighter.com

Maybe my answer is in there, that link above.

NAGA does have no-gi divisions, with purple, brown, and black belts (or their equivalent for anyone coming from other arts) all lumped together in the advanced division, so maybe he was planning to compete no-gi.

 

[Buka]

Ok, so I was working out when i saw some karate students coming down from the upstairs part of the gym. When they came down i noticed their teacher was only a 1st degree blackbelt Is this the certified teaching level for karate? I thought to teach any martial arts you have to be a master, or at a teacher level, or 4th degree or whatever. Not a 1st degree. This just seems kind of sketchy...

I'm a white belt in BJJ, but I've been teaching grappling for years.

I love being sketchy. (great word)

 

[JP3]

NAGA does have no-gi divisions, with purple, brown, and black belts (or their equivalent for anyone coming from other arts) all lumped together in the advanced division, so maybe he was planning to compete no-gi.

Yep, that's his thing. So, maybe that's it and the instructor uses how he does as part of the informal demo process?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Yep, that's his thing. So, maybe that's it and the instructor uses how he does as part of the informal demo process?

Sounds likely. Like I said, that's not a universal approach, but it's not terribly uncommon either.

 

[ballen0351]

So how does one know what rank someone else is just by seeing them walk down the stairs?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So how does one know what rank someone else is just by seeing them walk down the stairs?

In many styles, you can count the stripes on their belt.

 

[ballen0351]

In many styles, you can count the stripes on their belt.

yes and in many they don't so just seeing someone on the stairs means nothing

 

[Gerry Seymour]

yes and in many they don't so just seeing someone on the stairs means nothing

If they have stripes, that usually works. Of course, if they don't, you can't count them. There are a few (one noted in this thread) that produce a false reading because they start stripes later, but I've literally never run into them yet. All I've met in uniform either had no clear symbol, or their stripes matched dan grading.

 

[ballen0351]

If they have stripes, that usually works. Of course, if they don't, you can't count them. There are a few (one noted in this thread) that produce a false reading because they start stripes later, but I've literally never run into them yet. All I've met in uniform either had no clear symbol, or their stripes matched dan grading.

So back to my point How did the OP know what rank this instructor was by seeing him on the stairs.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So back to my point How did the OP know what rank this instructor was by seeing him on the stairs.

If he had a single stripe on a black belt, 1st dan is a reasonable read.

 

[ballen0351]

If he had a single stripe on a black belt, 1st dan is a reasonable read.

Except he didn't say that........ which is why I am asking.

 

[JP3]

So how does one know what rank someone else is just by seeing them walk down the stairs?

By knowing and recognizing them. That's how I do it.

Paul walks down the stairs.
I say, "Hey, Paul. How are you?" And I know that Paul's a shodan because I've known him for a few years. Personally, that's how I do it.

I don't know how the O/P did it, as it didn't seem like they knew each other.

 

[JP3]

It may be that the O/P just didn't think to put how they knew the rank, because, obviously, since they knew the rank was shodan, certainly everyone would assume that to be correct? Heck, he could have just asked him/her after class, right?

 

[mgotangsoodo]

Most schools I've seen in my style, So Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan, are operated by a third Dan or higher. They need permission from their instructors and usually a certification as Kyo Sa from the region the are in. The Kyo Sa cert can be obtained at second Dan and it's required predecessor, Jo Kyo, can be obtained at first Dan so it wouldn't be out of the question for a first or second Dan to run their own school or rec center program under the close guidance of their own instructors. Either way I would expect someone not a fourth Dan or higher (master) running their own program to have a regional/national cert (Jo Kyo, Kyo Sa, Sa Bom) and be at least second Dan. Now, any Dan ranks is eligible to teach a significant portion of a class in general so you will certainly see this happen a lot. Usually the leas instructor will give the jr Dan a lesson and a group of students and periodically check in on them (or not at all depending on level, age, experience)

 

[DanT]

I know some 1st dans that would destroy self appointed 10th dans. So no it doesn't matter.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Ok, so I was working out when i saw some karate students coming down from the upstairs part of the gym. When they came down i noticed their teacher was only a 1st degree blackbelt Is this the certified teaching level for karate? I thought to teach any martial arts you have to be a master, or at a teacher level, or 4th degree or whatever. Not a 1st degree. This just seems kind of sketchy...

I know it changes from one martial art to another. But is this normal? I don't know if i have ever seen a 1st degree/dan teaching.

If you are to lazy to read all that, Whats the certified level to teach a karate class? Does it change from one school to another in karate? is a 1st degree

That depends. Each dojo has their own criteria for who can teach. Also, there are different requirements to be the one who leads the class vs being an assistant instructor. When I was a brown belt I did some assistant teaching.

 

[JR 137]

I know some 1st dans that would destroy self appointed 10th dans. So no it doesn't matter.

I know some people who've never stepped into a dojo that would do the same.

Rank doesn't make a MAist; the MAist makes the rank.