1898

[Steel Tiger]

The year 1998 was very important from a military standpoint.

In the first instance the US demonstrated they were a major power through the Spanish-american War. They showed they had the naval and military might to take on a supposedly potent current power in Spain, even though strategically and tactically they had some way to go.

In the second instance a British army of about 25000 completely annihilated a force more than twice their size at the Battle of Omdurman. "A bloody demonstration of the superiority of machine guns and artillery over older weapons..."

These two events took place 16 years before the outbreak of WWII but they are significant with regard that conflict.

Were any lessons learned? Were these events forgotten?

Thoughts anyone.

 

[grydth]

1898 did put the USA on the world stage... But how positive was it in retrospect? We would sink back into extreme isolationism only to still later re-invent ourselves as the world's policeman.

Spain was in severe decline, much as was the Ottoman Empire. We 'gained' more in what we appeared to do in that war than in what was really accomplished. Personal bravery from the Fleet to the Rough Riders? Yes. A great feat of arms - hardly.

Was our late entry into the colonial race good or bad......hmm...... What did we gain from it? What intangibles did we lose?

It was claimed, quite possibly fiction, that General MacArthur had threatened terrorists attacking our troops in the Philippines with being buried in pig skins. Now we have 'learned' to respect the sensibilities of killers who do everything conceivable to offend - and murder - us.

The object of "Remember the Maine" , the US Battleship Maine, may well have been lost to a magazine explosion instead of Spanish action. Did we learn anything about not going to war for questionable reasons? It would appear not...

Militarily the nations who should have learned from Omdurman just 16 years later threw a generation onto the machine gun and artillery killing fields of France.

There are many lessons written in blood across history, if only the politicals would ever read them. I have little confidence that they ever will.

 

[Sapper6]

The year 1998 was very important from a military standpoint.

In the first instance the US demonstrated they were a major power through the Spanish-american War. They showed they had the naval and military might to take on a supposedly potent current power in Spain, even though strategically and tactically they had some way to go.

In the second instance a British army of about 25000 completely annihilated a force more than twice their size at the Battle of Omdurman. "A bloody demonstration of the superiority of machine guns and artillery over older weapons..."

These two events took place 16 years before the outbreak of WWII but they are significant with regard that conflict.

Were any lessons learned? Were these events forgotten?

Thoughts anyone.

i'm guessing that should be 1898 and WWI respectively?

 

[Steel Tiger]

i'm guessing that should be 1898 and WWI respectively?

Then you would have guessed right and earned a cookie. Oops!

 

[grydth]

Then you would have guessed right and earned a cookie. Oops!

I guessed right first, so all the food is mine.opcorn:

 

[Steel Tiger]

There are many lessons written in blood across history, if only the politicals would ever read them. I have little confidence that they ever will.

Sun Tsu said that politicians should leave war to the generals 1500 years ago. A lot of people bound for politics read his work but they must skip that chapter.

Quite a few of the commanders of WWI (got it right this time) participated in the events I mentioned. Pershing was in Cuba and Haig fought at Omdurman, just to name two, so were able to see the sought of thing that modern warfare was to bring to pass.

Pershing appears to have learned the lessons of modern warfare.

Haig in the 16 years in which he progressed from Captain to Field Marshal :xtrmshock seems to have learned only some of them. He never really understood that the cavalry (he was a cavalry man) was an obsolete arm and that artillery was the dominant factor on the battlefield.

The Germans, who had not participated in a significant battle with modern weapons before WWI, appear to have grasped the concepts much better.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Sun Tsu said that politicians should leave war to the generals 1500 years ago. A lot of people bound for politics read his work but they must skip that chapter.

Quite a few of the commanders of WWI (got it right this time) participated in the events I mentioned. Pershing was in Cuba and Haig fought at Omdurman, just to name two, so were able to see the sought of thing that modern warfare was to bring to pass.

Pershing appears to have learned the lessons of modern warfare.

Haig in the 16 years in which he progressed from Captain to Field Marshal :xtrmshock seems to have learned only some of them. He never really understood that the cavalry (he was a cavalry man) was an obsolete arm and that artillery was the dominant factor on the battlefield.

The Germans, who had not participated in a significant battle with modern weapons before WWI, appear to have grasped the concepts much better.

Politicians believe they are smarting than doctors, and engineers, and even generals.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Politicians believe they are smarting than doctors, and engineers, and even generals.

Well I can't argue with you on that one.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Well I can't argue with you on that one.

Well I can

Sometimes they do not believe they are smarter, they just believe theri won bought and paid for Doctor/Engineer/Wanna be General.

Sorry for the one sided arguement.

********************************
AS to 1898:

Check out the book "Bound to Empire" by Brands. It is about the Phillipines and the USA.

 

[Sapper6]

I guessed right first, so all the food is mine.opcorn:

did you? i don't remember seeing you point that out...

 

[grydth]

Sun Tsu said that politicians should leave war to the generals 1500 years ago. A lot of people bound for politics read his work but they must skip that chapter.

Quite a few of the commanders of WWI (got it right this time) participated in the events I mentioned. Pershing was in Cuba and Haig fought at Omdurman, just to name two, so were able to see the sought of thing that modern warfare was to bring to pass.

Pershing appears to have learned the lessons of modern warfare.

Haig in the 16 years in which he progressed from Captain to Field Marshal :xtrmshock seems to have learned only some of them. He never really understood that the cavalry (he was a cavalry man) was an obsolete arm and that artillery was the dominant factor on the battlefield.

The Germans, who had not participated in a significant battle with modern weapons before WWI, appear to have grasped the concepts much better.

Haig was the architect of the needless slaughters at the Somme and Passchendale in World War I.... I find it difficult to see what lasting lessons Omdurman could possibly have taught him.