15 Things You Should Know About "The Race"

[Sukerkin]

Affirmative action isn't about punishment for the past, it is about correcting problems in the present. Thus, your ancestry isn't really relevant unless people like you are being discriminated against today because of that past.

Of course I am being discriminated against.

I'm one of the great unwashed working classes. Just because I have more letters after my name than are in it doesn't make me any better in the eyes of those above.

The only Great White People who are not discriminated against are those from the select few families at the top of the tree.

I think I'm going to have to accede that you don't see things the way I do and leave it at that. It's not an issue on which reason is going to sway the day for either of us I fear.

 

[Big Don]

It isn't a question of "can't do", which you well know. It is a question of "less likely too" due to systemic problems from present discrimination to present poverty due to past discrimination.

Does personal responsibility have no bearing on how people live? As was pointed out, quite a number of black people have WORKED their way to riches, as have, by the way, people of EVERY RACE.

Keep fighting those "welfare queens"! This little bit of dogwhistle racism hasn't gotten any prettier since Reagen uttered it.

Racism? No, there are people of every race, creed, etc who are worthless to society(do we really need to roll tape on Sen Robert Byrd (D) WVA and White N******?), their race, creed etc isn't what makes them worthless, their attitude is.
No one owes you ANYTHING because of how you look, nor should they.
To say black people are unable to overcome the same diversities that others face is to insult black people, not to help them.
Suppose Empty Hands were Purple with Red Stripes. Does being Purple with Red Stripes make you any less a man? Any less able to work, to strive? NO.

 

[Twin Fist]

I would be willing to bet you've never been repeatedly followed around a mall by security. I would also be willing to bet that you've never been pulled over by the cops multiple times for a "busted taillight" when nothing was wrong with them. In any case, someone has made a list. Not perfect by any means, but at least a way to get you thinking.[/quote]

uh, NO

We both know why this happens, and it isnt racism or discrimination. I would be happy to elaborate further, but someone might get offended. Despite the FACT that everything I would say is factually true.

I'm glad that your extensive experience as a black man has led you to this important insight. Meanwhile, identical resumes with "black names" get half the call backs. Someone should tell these employers that pervasive discrimination doesn't exist any more.

We both also know whay THIS happens, but alas, same thing, I wont go into it.

But thats not the issue, you cant eradicate discrimination, thats inside each of us, but we have eliminated insitutional racism.

and by the way, saying that only a black man can understand is a racist remark, and I resent the hell out of it. Try growing up as a white kid in Oak Cliff. You heard of Oak Cliff? it's a suburb of dallas. Look it up. I know more about racism and discrimination than you might think.

 

[Big Don]

Try growing up as a white kid in Oak Cliff. You heard of Oak Cliff? it's a suburb of dallas. Look it up. I know more about racism and discrimination than you might think.

Yeah, but, you're a white guy, ergo, you obviously deserve it, and shouldn't be complaining about it.

 

[Twin Fist]

Yeah, but, you're a white guy, ergo, you obviously deserve it, and shouldn't be complaining about it.

i should have known that........

night guys

peace

 

[CuongNhuka]

Kind of a racist idea to say that all whites have "privileges" that others don't, isn't it?

You're actually missing the point. The problem isn't "everyone in the poor is a Minority, and everyone in the Rich is White". the problem is staring you in the face. Who was our last Black President? Of all the people in the US who are on the Forbes 400, how many are hispanic? How many Middle Eastern Senators are there in Congress? The deck is stacked not because of an absolute border, but because of people of power (economicly/socially and politicly) are disproportionally white. White people are getting close to being a minority, but are still the ones who control (overall) the most amount of power.

 

[FearlessFreep]

You're actually missing the point. The problem isn't "everyone in the poor is a Minority, and everyone in the Rich is White". the problem is staring you in the face. Who was our last Black President? Of all the people in the US who are on the Forbes 400, how many are hispanic? How many Middle Eastern Senators are there in Congress? The deck is stacked not because of an absolute border, but because of people of power (economicly/socially and politicly) are disproportionally white. White people are getting close to being a minority, but are still the ones who control (overall) the most amount of power.

Why are there so few Americans at the high GM ranks in Korean MA? Is it anti-American racism or just opportunity? Or female GM ranks for that matter? To achieve the rank of GM takes a lifetime; decades of work, and most people who start at the age of ten or twenty will never make it through the journey. So you go back to the 70s and 80s and realize, how many kids who walked into a dojang will even still be around in 30 years. Of those, how many of the skill, determination, dumb luck, opportunity, and political savvy to make it to the GM ranks. So you take a hundred kids of representative background. Of that 100, how many reach GM rank...5? 2? 1? Now of that 100, say you have 10 black kids and 5 hispanic kids. Of those minority kids, how many make it to GM rank? When normal attrition eliminates 95% of the population from even being considered, and you're starting from a minority status in the first place, that attrition is going to leave precious few at the end. Now even if your minority status raises to be 45% of the population, it will take *decades* for that percentage to be represented at the GM rank simply because the process of achieving that level takes decades of time and natural attrition will wipe out most people who start. Naturally, there were less Americans than Koreans practicing Korean Martial Arts back in t he 70s and 80s so there are still a lot less American GMs than Koreans today, and you don't need to blame it on racism.

Politics and business are very similar. It takes decades to achieve positions of notable power, and the process eliminates most people, period. I mean, for every kid who sits on their high school student council, how many make it to be President of the United States? Very...very...very few. Women, blacks, hispanics, etc...have only had serious political opportunity for a relatively short amount of time in this country. Because of the natural pyramid elimination ( a lot less positions of power available than those who may want it), and the natural attrition of ambition, opportunity, luck and skill, it's still going to be awhile before you see groups of people who were only given a chance a few decades ago proportionally represented in power positions. and you don't have to resort to accusations of racism against the population at large to explain why

 

[elder999]

Nope, not happening, dont believe it, cant make me believe it.

What "priviledges" do I enjoy?

I have been poor my entire life. I was born poor and I am still poor. I havnt had a college graduate in my family YET. on Either side.I have never owned a new car.

snip!
TODAY, no one (the possible exception of the American Indians) has anything stacked against them but their own ambition, or thier own lack of ambition.

snip!

It isnt true anymore.

Plus, and again, hate to resort to logic, but you cannot, by definition, give someone an advantage without putting someone else at a disadvantage, and when you put someone at a disadvanatage due to race, it is not only immoral, it is illegal.

I guess running water is a "privilege?"

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Residents of a mostly black neighborhood in rural Ohio were awarded nearly $11 million Thursday by a federal jury that found local authorities denied them public water service for decades out of racial discrimination.

Each of the 67 plaintiffs was awarded $15,000 to $300,000, depending on how long they had lived in the Coal Run neighborhood, about 5 miles east of Zanesville in Muskingum County in east-central Ohio.

The money covers both monetary losses and the residents' pain and suffering between 1956, when water lines were first laid in the area, and 2003, when Coal Run got public water.

Seen here

 

[zDom]

Parts I found interesting:

"Attorney Mark Landes, who represented the county and water district, called the verdict disappointing. He said jurors were not allowed to hear defendants' testimony that neighborhood residents were offered water service years ago and refused it."

and

"Landes countered that about half of Muskingum County residents are not tied into the public water system even today. Among those without it are county commissioners, judges and other prominent officials, he said."

The house I own isn't hooked up to public water. Too bad the neighborhood isn't mostly black, eh? Could be like hitting the lottery.

 

[elder999]

The house I own isn't hooked up to public water. Too bad the neighborhood isn't mostly black, eh? Could be like hitting the lottery.

Do you have your own well?

Do you have the option of being hooked up to public water?

Have you tried to exercise that option, and been refused?

 

[zDom]

Do you have your own well?

Do you have the option of being hooked up to public water?

Have you tried to exercise that option, and been refused?

Yes, I have my own well. (So do the people in the community in the article if they PAY to have it dug — just like the developer did who built my house. Nobody denied them the right to dig a well!).

Nope — never had the option to hook up to a public water district.

What do you mean by "tried to exercise that option and been refused"? According to the article above, they HAD THE OPPORTUNITY in the past and THEY refused! They weren't "denied" public water access; there WAS NO public water in their area — and they SUED TAXPAYERS for not putting it in (despite having refused it in the past!)

What do you know about public water districts in rural areas?

I have have covered in detail the establishment of rural public water districts in this area.

Sounds to ME like they didn't want to pay debt service on the bond it would take to finance the establishment of a rural water district so they played the race card and won the lottery.

Nobody forced them to remain in that community. Any resident of that area could have moved to another residence where public water was available if it meant that much to them. Furthermore, that community had the opportunity to establish a water district and they refused. It wasn't about race. It was simply about financial feasibility and them playing the race card because they didn't want to pay to have public water put in just like everybody else has to pay to get a public water district put in.

If the same community was mostly white things would have been no different except that they wouldn't have cried "racism!!" and sued taxpayers.

 

[Twin Fist]

oh look, another cry of racism that doesnt withstand actual scrutiny.........

 

[Empty Hands]

We both know why this happens, and it isnt racism or discrimination. I would be happy to elaborate further, but someone might get offended. Despite the FACT that everything I would say is factually true.

Oh please elaborate. Tell me why it isn't racism when well dressed middle class blacks are followed around stores while well dressed middle class whites are not.

Oh, and the name thing. Elaborate on that as well. Tell me why it isn't racist to not hire Jamal Warner with an MBA and a 3.8 GPA from Ohio State and hiring John Warner with an MBA and a 3.8 GPA from Ohio State instead.

...and by the way, saying that only a black man can understand is a racist remark, and I resent the hell out of it.

You claimed that systemic discrimination against blacks doesn't exist anymore. It is not racist to suggest that you have no means of knowing that considering you aren't one of the people who would tend to be affected by it and thus notice it. If I claim that discrimination against women doesn't exist, it isn't sexist to point out that I am a man and wouldn't really know.

 

[Empty Hands]

Yeah, but, you're a white guy, ergo, you obviously deserve it, and shouldn't be complaining about it.

i should have known that........

Lawd, Lawd, when will the black man stop oppressing us poor crackas?!?

 

[Kacey]

[playnice]Karen Cohn[/playnice]

 

[Archangel M]

While she experienced a great deal of racial discrimination first hand in Birmingham, Condoleeza Rice had a very middle class, if not upper middle class upbringing. Her father was a Presbyterian minister and school guidance counselor, and her mother was a schoolteacher. She started learning foreing languages, ballet and piano from the age of three.

So her parents were hard working and successful. Isn't that proof of the point as well??? Ive seen that argument about successful minorities before. "Oh she was born privileged" , like that means something. That privilege came about through someones hard work and success. I don't understand that line of reasoning.

 

[elder999]

So her parents were hard working and successful. Isn't that proof of the point as well???

Not really sure what "the point" is. There have been "successful people of color" on the North American Continent since quite a while before there was a "United States of America." That they were a minority within the minority (though often actually a majority in some areas) and one that had no rights, even as citizens, is a statement to their being exceptions-as in exceptional, and not of any degree of parity for the "races."

 

[Archangel M]

You can spend (waste) your live complaining of being a victim or you can get to work. Theres plenty of people of any race who do either of them.

 

[zDom]

Lawd, Lawd, when will the black man stop oppressing us poor crackas?!?

Just for the sake of discussion, why can you say the "C word" but we can't use the "N word"?

And why are African Americans ALLOWED to use the "N word"? If it is so bad that it shouldn't be spoken by whites, why should it be spoken by ANYONE?

And why can black comics make jokes about how dorky, awkward and uptight we white folk are, but white comics can't make jokes about black people? And why can black comics make jokes about black folks when white folks can't?

Why if someone (other than a black person, of course) is caught using the "N word" they have to make a public apology and meet with Jesse Jackson to discuss racial sensitivity, but Jackson can call Jews "hymies"?

And why are there more African Americans in the NBA? Shouldn't they hire only 12.4 percent blacks, 76 percent whites, 4.4 percent Asian, .8 percent American Indian, 14.8 percent Latino/Hispanic, etc.?

I'm sorry to hear that a well-dressed African American can't walk through a department store without getting followed (not sarcastic, I really think that sucks).

But what sucks MORE is why can't I, a 2nd degree black belt in TKD and 1st degree black belt in HKD, feel safe walking through a black neighborhood four blocks away from my apartment? I see black people walking there at all hours of the night.

Why should black crack dealers target white people for strong-arm robberies when they are buying crack but do business as usual with black customers?

Why is it "a black thing"? Why do black people berate other black people for "talking white"? Isn't it just talking AMERICAN?? Because as far as I know there IS no "white" way of talking. English is spoken differently in the U.S., Britain and Australia. Germans are (mostly) white but speak a completely different language. Etc.

Why is there a "black national anthem"? I don't know of an Asian national anthem, or a white national anthem. What in the hell is wrong with "one nation, under God"?

My point is, NO, things are NOT perfect. There are still bad people of ALL races that hate or do things strictly based on race — but it isn't limited to white people. Most of the racism I see is blacks hating whites for no other reason than we are white.

Rosa Parks made a POSITIVE change in this country NOT by screaming "Racism! Racism!!" but by, in a dignified manner, behaving as if she were NO DIFFERENT than any OTHER person!

Crying racism isn't helping ANYBODY other than people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who make a LIVING (and a wealthy one, at that) doing it.

Last week while visiting my grandparents, I saw Rogelio for the first time in something like 20 years. He has worked at my grandparent's RV park for nearly 30 years. He is hispanic. It was great to see him again. He works there because Orangeland treats him well. They are pleased to have him on the payroll because he is a hard worker. Race was never an issue.

My little brother was adopted as an infant because we fell in love with him. He IS my brother; no different than my "natural" brother. He is of mixed racial makeup, mostly hispanic — some black. Race was never an issue.

My SON is over 50 percent Dakota Indian. Technically is a stepson. His mother and I divorced. I couldn't care less if I ever see HER again, but HE will ALWAYS be my son. I love him as much as I do my two "natural" born sons. Race has never been an issue.

But I am SICK of getting "hard looks" from the, yes, WELFARE queens and THUGS in this town. Race isn't an issue: their racism IS.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The simple fact is that the current practice of "affirmative action" in the US is neither affirmative, nor active. It passively awards preference based on race, gender, or other "disadvantaged criteria" to a candidate, without regard to qualifications. In short, it's a case of trying to make two wrongs equal a right. It doesn't work; discrimination remains discrimination, no matter what you call it or who you use it on.

I would actually love to see TRUE affirmative action. Since police departments are a prime area for affirmative action to "balance the department composition to reflect the community", allow me to describe one approach that I would consider to be both affirmative, and active. Go out and actively recruit in the target populations. (Note that I am not denying the existence of prejudices or biases; people remain people. I've seen a very enlightening sketch by Bill Cosby on the subject...) Start young; make the kids think positively about being a cop; make sure that the cops in the area are good examples. Work with them overt time to ensure that they remain eligible, keeping them out of gangs, away from drugs, in school, and so on. Provide, open to all potential candidates, coaching sessions for the written and physical tests, and so on. This is an approach that I consider to be truly affirmative (as in it's building up everyone involved, rather than artifically "leveling" the field) and active. The problem is that it's not a quick and easy solution. But then, fairness is seldom quickly nor easily achieved.

Bill Cosby is all well and good but the purpose of affirmative action is to improve the attitude of the black community. Telling a group of children in school how great the police are or how awesome their teachers are for that matter will make no real difference if they are being taught the opposite in the home.
Sean