10th degree

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by donald
Chiduce,
What is Dragon Kenpo? I remember the ads in Blackbelt, but never really checked it out. If I understand G.R.'s post regarding this correctly, the system, or Association was a sham? Your post sounded like you agreed with that assesment in past tence, but now they have overhauled their Association practices? Who is this person/persons who has taken over from Mr.Hutchison? Do they trace their kenpo to the Parker/Tracy tree? Just asking out of curiosity, no agenda okay!?
Salute in Christ,
Donald

Donald, if you would also go to the Yahoo Dragon Kenpo Forum; you will find that a New DK Curriculum will be started at Liberty University or Jerry Faldwell's School very soon! One of the P.E. Professors is an Ed. Hutchison Black Belt and his website is posted on the forum! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[GouRonin]

The new Dragon Kenpo has more respectability than the previous association.

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by GouRonin
The new Dragon Kenpo has more respectability than the previous association.

Yes, sir it does and we had to fight like heck for it! Yet, it was well worth the fight! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[warriorsage]

Curious: What is the current rank of Ed Hutchinson? I thought he was a grandmaster, but I don't want to assume that blindly. I ask this because I found it out that he was promoted to 3rd in 1990 and is now (or was a few years ago) so highly ranked. This is not a slam of EH, or his skills or his students, and I am sincerely interested in an answer, so please try not to assume that I mean any offense to Dragon Kenpo people.

 

[warriorsage]

I wrote: >>I found it out that he was promoted to 3rd in 1990 and is now (or was a few years ago) so highly ranked.

That should have read, "I found it ODD that he was promoted..."

Sorry for the typo

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by warriorsage
I wrote: >>I found it out that he was promoted to 3rd in 1990 and is now (or was a few years ago) so highly ranked.

That should have read, "I found it ODD that he was promoted..."

Sorry for the typo

Sir, when you or anyone found a new martial arts system and apply for your system to be certified. There is a promotion when your system is accepted by the certifying body to 4th Dan /Yondan/Yodan. After this phase is complete, you can apply for a lineage trace or further certification by a higher governing body than the previous one, At least this is the way that most new system founders started. Next is the higher body verification of your current rank in your new system and the lineage trace. If the lineage trace is good then the search for verification of at least shodan ranking in another system done! If you cannot verify the last condition, the higher governing will assign you to the new Master training program; in which you will be assigned to one of the governing body Grang Masters for instruction. Upon completion of the Grandmaster's program you will have met that last requirement! You will then be awarded the title of Shodai Soke and rank of 10th Degree. Now this is the catch; once your new system has been certified by the 1st governing body and you are awarded the rank of 4th Dan; you can promote in your system as high as you see fit. Thus, even though you are ranked as at 4th Dan and are the founder of a new certified martial art system; as long as you do not proclaim yourself the title of Soke, then you can promote in your new system as high as you wish. this is because you can still get your system certified by a higher governing body! Now there is also middle ground certification by the higher body or another certifying body which is not as high as the soke council but is recognized by the council as an official certifying body! There is one requirement which i left out and that is the higher body will require you to be at least 5th Dan. so, the 4th Dan is considered a 5th Dan equivalent for the system new system creation and can send in to the middle certifying body a video tape of the new system along with other set requirements and be promoted 1 rank higher to 5th Dan for this middle higher certification! Still as long as the founder does not self proclaim him/herself as a Soke they can promote within their system as high as they want. So, the rank of 4th Dan and 5th Dan Master or Headmaster Of The New Ryu and/or Ryuha exists! This, is actually how the certification works! I'am also founder of a new martial street combative called Butokutsuru Ryu Kenpojutsu or translated as the ( Virtuous Crane's Law Of The Dragons' Fist ) the Dragon here represents only all wisdom within the Crane's Law Of The Fist, as following the Way of Butoku, and Busan. Anyway most new system founders only like to be addressed as either 4th or 5th Dan and not Master; which is also my case! I hope this sheds some light on your question! Remember, this certification process applies to all new system founders regardless of style with one exception; the New Inheritor Of A System after the original Headmaster has either stepped down or dies! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[GouRonin]

But really it only applied if you decide to go by some council's will and their determinations.

Personally, I think Ed Parker did it best. He went out and proved what he was doing and let others choose to follow.

Not to demean what you are doing, it's just not for me to follow.

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by GouRonin
But really it only applied if you decide to go by some council's will and their determinations.

Personally, I think Ed Parker did it best. He went out and proved what he was doing and let others choose to follow.

Not to demean what you are doing, it's just not for me to follow.

You are not demeaning anything to me or my organization. We are world wide now and continuing to grow and contribute to the martial arts community! As with any good thing the basis is on attraction rather than promotion! I do not make the rules for the martial arts community; yet as a practitioner i 'am inclined to follow those rules which would benefit the community at large! If it was not for GM Ed. Parker, which i never had the pleasure of meeting, i would not be continuing my martial arts studies to this day! It, took some 3,4,5, and some even 10 years to obtain the 1st Degree Black Belt, and others even longer! I'am proud to say even longer myself. So, i know when, and how to study the martial way which works for myself and those like me to benefit the community as a whole! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Goldendragon7]

Chudice, I posted earlier on that Jay T. Will NEVER was promoted to 8th degree by Ed Parker personally. and received no response. I would like to see the certificate and verify the number on it to validate your claim.

It is a well known fact that Mr. Parker didn't promote "anyone" to higher than 7th Degree. (Elvis, Cerio, and Griffith were crossover or honorary issues).

Many of these men are well known Seniors in Kenpo i.e., Dave Hebler, Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, Huk Planas, Joe Palanzo, Bob White, Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Ron Chap'el, Chuck Sullivan, John Conway (D), and Arturo Petit (D). These were the legitimate promotions under Ed Parker directly......... do any of these remember Jay T. Will being added to the list....... no.

I find it interesting that 11 years later some try to rewrite history and attempt to incorrectly insert individuals into the linage.

 

[arnisador]

Did Mr. Parker consider himself a 10th degree black belt or did he only take the title SGM ("above and beyond rank" as they say)?

What was his rank in kosho-ryu?

 

[tshadowchaser]

I only had the privledge of speaking with Mr. Parker two times but from my very short conversations (only a few minutes each) I had the impression that he accepted the title rather than thinking of himslef as 10th.
My impression was of a man who was very happy with his "children "those being the students, and with the way his art had grown. I did not sence someone who goes around saying " i'm a 10th degree" rather a man who gave of himslef to better the art he loved.
Again this is only my opion based on two very short meetings. He was kind enough to speak with me when he had never seen me befor and to exchange words of encouragement I shall always remember those meetings and the man.
Shadow

 

[Klondike93]

I was talking to a kenpo instructor about rank one day, and was told the following.
Mr Parker was known as GM holding 10th degree and there would be no other 10th as that was his title and rank as founder of the system.
When he died, others in the system wanted to be promoted to 10th but couldn't because he held the rank. Thus SGM was created to elevate Mr. Parker above all others and yet let them be 10th degrees now. Don't know if it's true or not but it kind of makes sense. Till they made him SGM no high ranking black belt wanted to be a 10th.

:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

"Did Mr. Parker consider himself a 10th degree black belt or did he only take the title SGM ("above and beyond rank" as they say)?"

The Shadowchaser pretty much hit it. Mr. Parker never claimed any titles but they are essential when dealing with a large International group. He is the one and only Founder of American Kenpo...... his System, all others are spin offs or one of many of the "Ed Parker Kenpo Systems" we have today.

"What was his rank in kosho-ryu?" Ed Parker had no rank in Kosho-ryu - that is not his Art and had nothing to do with it.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
"What was his rank in kosho-ryu?" Ed Parker had no rank in Kosho-ryu - that is not his Art and had nothing to do with it.

I must have misunderstood--wasn't this one of the arts he put into his kenpo?

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Chudice, I posted earlier on that Jay T. Will NEVER was promoted to 8th degree by Ed Parker personally. and received no response. I would like to see the certificate and verify the number on it to validate your claim.

It is a well known fact that Mr. Parker didn't promote "anyone" to higher than 7th Degree. (Elvis, Cerio, and Griffith were crossover or honorary issues).

Many of these men are well known Seniors in Kenpo i.e., Dave Hebler, Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, Huk Planas, Joe Palanzo, Bob White, Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Ron Chap'el, Chuck Sullivan, John Conway (D), and Arturo Petit (D). These were the legitimate promotions under Ed Parker directly......... do any of these remember Jay T. Will being added to the list....... no.

I find it interesting that 11 years later some try to rewrite history and attempt to incorrectly insert individuals into the linage.

Go to the UKKA Website where Master Dave Harris Dave Harris has become the Director of Grand Master Will's Organization: This is where i got my information from and Master Harris is supposed to be one of only 2 Black Belts promoted to Rokudan. The # is (954) 941-8436 or fax (954) 941-3194. You can also inquire to his family about his 8th Dan certificate. There was also another post on this forum 10th Degree about GM Parker and Master Will being on the same testing board, and another master on the same board talking with GM Parker about promoting Master Will to 8th Degree. That day Master Parker is said to have signed the 8th Dan Certificate at the testing for another black belt. This information came from the historian! I will give you his name in the next post! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Chudice, I posted earlier on that Jay T. Will NEVER was promoted to 8th degree by Ed Parker personally. and received no response. I would like to see the certificate and verify the number on it to validate your claim.

It is a well known fact that Mr. Parker didn't promote "anyone" to higher than 7th Degree. (Elvis, Cerio, and Griffith were crossover or honorary issues).

Many of these men are well known Seniors in Kenpo i.e., Dave Hebler, Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, Huk Planas, Joe Palanzo, Bob White, Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Ron Chap'el, Chuck Sullivan, John Conway (D), and Arturo Petit (D). These were the legitimate promotions under Ed Parker directly......... do any of these remember Jay T. Will being added to the list....... no.

I find it interesting that 11 years later some try to rewrite history and attempt to incorrectly insert individuals into the linage.

The historian is Sanxiawuyi; is post may have been on another subject though, yet this is what he said! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Goldendragon7]

Anyone can post whatever they want....... I was there. Again, if you have an IKKA certificate and certificate number to verify your claims then show me.

Mr. Parker sat on a number of boards for promotions as a guest. That does not mean that he was a personal student...... if he was then he would have been promoted directly by Ed Parker himself and given an IKKA certificate (which I have not seen produced as of yet). If he did in fact sit on a board where the group decided to promote Jay to 8th then fine, but he was not a direct student above all those that were proven and known personal students (not secret) as I listed prior. If he were a direct student of Ed Parker we would have been glad to add him to the list of Seniors, as it were he was NOT. If Ed Parker would have promoted him to 8th EVERYONE would know of it not just your group. Need I say more.

What "family" are you suggesting I ask........... Jay T. Wills? If that is the case that would prove nothing.

I'm sorry to press this issue but I just do not like the propagation of false information. There are too many of us out there still alive that know the truth and we must stand or rumor will soon become fact.

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Chudice, I posted earlier on that Jay T. Will NEVER was promoted to 8th degree by Ed Parker personally. and received no response. I would like to see the certificate and verify the number on it to validate your claim.

It is a well known fact that Mr. Parker didn't promote "anyone" to higher than 7th Degree. (Elvis, Cerio, and Griffith were crossover or honorary issues).

Many of these men are well known Seniors in Kenpo i.e., Dave Hebler, Tom Kelly, Steve LaBounty, Huk Planas, Joe Palanzo, Bob White, Frank Trejo, Larry Tatum, Ron Chap'el, Chuck Sullivan, John Conway (D), and Arturo Petit (D). These were the legitimate promotions under Ed Parker directly......... do any of these remember Jay T. Will being added to the list....... no.

I find it interesting that 11 years later some try to rewrite history and attempt to incorrectly insert individuals into the linage.

Sir, first lets get this straight; i'am learning new things everday! To my understanding the head of Master Will's UKKA at the present was telling the truth about his master! I have already made martial art's history myself and did not want too. Yet that is another subject! I'am trying to become a martial historian in time and make my own contribution. I definitely, would not like to rewrite someone else's history! I have enough trouble at the present having to promote my own system and have as it documented history! I became interested in the Martial Way because of just seeing people like GM Parker in a balancing side kick. I use the AK equation formula and 3 phase conceptuality in the other system which i'am teaching. So, i'am not trying to do anthing but understand the truth about Master Will. Personally, i think that was a shot below the belt! Yet, the street has no rules, neither do i! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Goldendragon7]

Well if you intend to be a true and correct historian in Kenpo then you need to research the facts and not just rely on one site.

I have nothing against Jay T. Will or his organization or heirs. I do have a problem when people do not tell it like it was. A fine martial artist (particulairly fighter) he was....... however, when you do time for selling cocaine out of your studio, that hurts all the martial arts and in particular the person we are talking about, so to glorify him now years later is not right. Yes, he was a fine competitor but lets not get carried away with whom he studied and give ranks out to him above and beyond Ed Parkers most personal and highest ranking students. Thats it. The truth is the truth.

What "Martial Arts history" did you make anyway, just curious.

Not trying to be a shot below the belt just the truth on a topic you brought up pal. :asian:

 

[WilliamTLear]

I've known Dennis Conatser for a long time, and he WAS a personal student of Mr. Parker's. I am currently a student of Frank Trejo (Whom ran Mr. Parker's Pasadena Studio for approx. 15 years before Mr. Parker Passed, and teaches there to THIS day).

According to both of these men (as well as many of the other 9th and 10th degree black belt's that I know in todays kenpo world) nobody earned a rank above 7th degree black from Ed Parker. This my friend is the cold hard truth. If you have been told otherwise... you have been lied to.