10 year old black belt

[Shinzu]

i agree that a child should not be taught crushing blows. there are some things that can wait until the appropriate age.

the problem with not promoting children to high ranks is that most parents just don't understand their child needs to be physically and mentally "ready" for a rank level. if you teach and promote this way, (which i think is correct) they will most likely take their kid elsewhere to some "belt factory"... sad but true.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Yes there has to be a happy median. Still staying by the standards of black belt level but still allowing dedicated, serious children to attain that level.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[ZenYuchia]

You think you guys advance slowly I have been practicing Kung-Fu for more than three years and I am a yellow sash. Note highest ranked student of school is a red sash and has 10+ years of practice there.

 

[Nightingale]

I've had 13 years of kenpo and am only a brown belt.

 

[Cthulhu]

I've rambled about this before, long ago, but what the heck...

I echo Gou's view...no black belt until 18 years of age.

I was going to ramble on about exactly why I think this, but damn...the reasons are fairly obvious.

And the reason black belts are given (sold, given...same difference) to children is also fairly obvious.

I could see testing someone for black belt as early as 16, provided they've proven to be extremely excellent students and also demonstrated a high level of maturity and responsibility, but never a 10-year-old. Either give them a junior-black belt rank, or let them stay a brown belt (or equivalent) until they are really ready to test for black.

Cthulhu

 

[kenposcum]

Giving a kid a black belt is disgraceful.
Some things just scream "McDojo!!!!"
If you call it a "junior" black belt, things are a little different...but still, I wouldn't even want to give them the opportunity to say "I'm a black belt! And then get creamed by some dude with an axe to grind..."
And Nightingale, you say you've got 13 years in Kenpo and are still a brown. What you didn't tell us is how many HOURS you've got in. The Old Man said "We'd prefer not to measure in terms of months or years, but in terms of HIGHLY CONCENTRATED HOURS [emphasis mine]." So think of it that way, and thank God you've got a good instructor.
:asian:

 

[Nightingale]

I've got in between two and twenty hours a week fairly consistantly for 13 years (normally, not counting a few two-three week vacations and about three months where I got kinda burned out because of various circumstances). There were several years where I didn't have an instructor, however, I did consistantly go over everything I had already learned, and I was teaching friends who'd been bugging me about it, so although I wasn't making a whole lot of progress during those times, I wasn't really backsliding either. I've switched instructors a few times for various reasons, and all I'm going to say about that is that my current instructor is awesome and I'm learning a lot, and I don't care how long it takes me to get to black belt, because when I do get there, there will be no doubt in my mind whether or not I've earned it, and that's what's important.

-N-


~~~~~~~~~~

 

[KennethKu]

There is a TKD instructor in my city. This guy is no scammer. He is a professor at the University here. He made the statement that some one who is reasonably physically adapated, can be trained and ready to past the black belt test in 6 months. Not that they would do it that way. But his statement is an interesting revelation.

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

I don't care how long it takes me to get to black belt, because when I do get there, there will be no doubt in my mind whether or not I've earned it, and that's what's important.

-N-


~~~~~~~~~~

That's exactly the way it should be as well.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[GouRonin]

I was born a black belt.

It just took me some time to refine my technique.

 

[7starmantis]

I think alot of it has to do with your system as well. Some systems put great infasis on beign a black belt, while others do not even use belts at all. In my system you can test all the say to black 2 whenever you want, provided you can handle the requirments. Most people cannot until they are older, but some do. Now that said, young kids have to start over when entering the 12 year old class regardless of their "ranking". In systems that use no belts, the power of the technique is not the issue, it is the technique itself. Its just different worlds when you get into different systems.

JMO

7sm

 

[Nightingale]

even if a system puts a lot of emphasis on getting a black belt, they need to put even more emphasis on getting the knowledge that a black belt is supposed to signify.


-N-

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[7starmantis]

Originally posted by nightingale8472

even if a system puts a lot of emphasis on getting a black belt, they need to put even more emphasis on getting the knowledge that a black belt is supposed to signify.


-N-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just so that we are on the same page, are we talking about the knowledge of when to use training, how to walk or run away from a siuation, that type of knowledge, or does it also encompas things like history of the system, terms of the system, things like that ?

7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

I vote for all of the above. A black belt should have the knowledge to know when to walk away and when to fight and the ability to do so. He/she should also know the history of his/her system and perhaps much more.
Shadow

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

I vote for all of the above. A black belt should have the knowledge to know when to walk away and when to fight and the ability to do so. He/she should also know the history of his/her system and perhaps much more.
Shadow

OK just to play devils advocate, does knowing terms and history of your system really increase your skill level or your respect? I mean you could not know what anything is called but have a tremendous skill level and technique, right? What does the knowledge present that makes you a candidate for BB rather than strict skill level and technique? I'm not saying I'm against it, just asking, so please no one get all pissed off, just starting some discussion.


7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

NP
NO knowing the history will not increas a persons ability to protect themslefs. But if that same person is asked a question about where there knowledge comes from they should have some idea otherwise they will "seem" to come from a self made system, or it wil appear that the school only belives in fighting not in anything else.
Do they need to know the whole history. Maybe not but enough to sound intellegent and knowledgeable. Some systems have a verrrrrry long history some a much shorter one.
The skill of a person dose not make him/her a Black belt in and by itslef IMHO

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

NP
NO knowing the history will not increas a persons ability to protect themslefs. But if that same person is asked a question about where there knowledge comes from they should have some idea otherwise they will "seem" to come from a self made system, or it wil appear that the school only belives in fighting not in anything else.
Do they need to know the whole history. Maybe not but enough to sound intellegent and knowledgeable. Some systems have a verrrrrry long history some a much shorter one.
The skill of a person dose not make him/her a Black belt in and by itslef IMHO

Thats very true, and I like that about the skill level not making the person a black belt in and of itself. I guess its kind of like our Jr Sifu level. Even if you know the forms, can run the distance, can hold the stamces, you can't allways test for Jr Sifu. It takes a person who is very dedicated to the system as well.
So I guess your saying the belts are not used for showing rank by pure fighting skill in itself, but something alot more than "simple" technique?

7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

There are people out there that have so much natural talent and ability that they could most likely learn and pass the physical requirements for most school in a short period of time. Some of these kids are unreal in what they can do.
But are they mentaly able to accept the responsibility for the damage they might cause. Will the court hold them responsible if they harm or kill someone or will the court go after the instructor?
I would not promote an adult to black belt if I thought his main objective was to strutt around the local bar and pick fights (not that that isnt good training I just dont agree with it) and I will not promote a child if I do not think they are responsible.
The knowledge of a system is PART of that system and it is important that it be passed on. How often do we here on the forum ask about a system we do dot know about. If the person claims to be a instructor in the system and can not tell us about the system( I know what I think ) what do you then think about that person and his system

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser

There are people out there that have so much natural talent and ability that they could most likely learn and pass the physical requirements for most school in a short period of time. Some of these kids are unreal in what they can do.
But are they mentaly able to accept the responsibility for the damage they might cause. Will the court hold them responsible if they harm or kill someone or will the court go after the instructor?
I would not promote an adult to black belt if I thought his main objective was to strutt around the local bar and pick fights (not that that isnt good training I just dont agree with it) and I will not promote a child if I do not think they are responsible.
The knowledge of a system is PART of that system and it is important that it be passed on. How often do we here on the forum ask about a system we do dot know about. If the person claims to be a instructor in the system and can not tell us about the system( I know what I think ) what do you then think about that person and his system

Very good points, I am deffinatly an advocate of learning your systems history, and journey to present day. I am curious though, do you really think the courts could come after an instructor for teaching something someone used in a fight? I know it has happened in the past, but in todays world, you are rendering a service that has been payed for, can you presume to know what that perosn may use it as? Don't get me wrong, I am deffinatly an advocate of using your system correctly, and only teaching those that are responsible and respectful, but I'm just curious if it actually could come back to you legally, we know it would morally.

7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

I think they call it careless indefference. Simply meaning you did something without any thought as to what might result from it.
Yes I think the courts can hold an instructor responsible if he/she teaches killing or joint manipulation/dislocation, or instructs students to stomp someone when they are down. The student is a child and doing what they where told to do, by the instructor, just another reason for not giveing Black belts out to childern.