10 point blocking sysem
- Thread starter sstiger5
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K
Karazenpo
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sstiger5 said:
I asked Gm. S. George Pesare and showed him the 10 pt. and he stated it was nothing he taught Professor Cerio. I had also asked Professor Cerio and the impression he gave me was that it was something he created but didn't use anymore and you see a sample of similiar tension breathing movements in Cat Form #3, Cerio's own creation. From what I can see on different Shaolin Kempo websites, Gm. Villari takes credit for the Plum Tree Blocking System but the 10 Point is never mentioned. My own research tells me the begining was obviously inspired by the begining of Gm. Pesare's #6 Kata and those 'windmill' type 'fan' blocks appear to be Okinawan influenced via Chinese Kung Fu, you will see them exactly as taught in the 10 Point in Gm. Robert Trias' 1973 edition of 'The Hand is My Sword'. It is also obviously a 'tension breathing exercise' and that's why, again, it goes back to Cerio and Oyama's book. Pesare and Cerio, together, adopted Taikyoku shodan for a beginner form back in the mid 60's from Oyama's book. Later Cerio took ideas from Taikyoku shodan, nidan and sandan to create his Pinan 2 in Shaolin Kempo later re-named Pinan 3 in Nick Cerio's Kenpo (1974). The reason I bring this up is that in Oyama's book there is much written on the tension breathing exercise movement of Chinese Kempo in which specific exercises are shown and it looks familiar. I'm just guessing at this but could that have also inspired Cerio to create the 10 Point? Yes, it has bunkai as all forms do but it's main purpose is a tension breathing exercise and bear in mind, Master Bill Chun Sr. and Jr.'s Goshinjutsu Kai Chinese Kempo and William Chow's Kara ho Kempo system which Cerio had a passing connection and influence from also stresses tension breathing forms. Anyone else have ideas on this? Respectfully, Professor Joe
PS: Professor Cerio also took #3, 4 and 5 Pinan from Mas Oyama's book. Later, he would alter them and call them Cat #1 (#3 Pinan) and Cat #2 (4 Pinan) for Nick Cerio's Kenpo. I asked him how come he didn't use #5 Pinan and he told me it just didn't fit into his system and that's a quote.
Blooming Lotus
Purple Belt
do you have links or lyrics you can share??
- Thread Starter
- #4
Master Shuras, I took a brief look at cat #3 and the best I could come up with from the 10 Point Blocking System was the circular or mawashi uke blocks, is there more to be seen. What kata/forms did Prof Cerio use from the KGS tree. Are the forms he used all traced back to KGS, were some created by Pesare? Ps any idea why he called that Cat #3 (maybe due to the cat stances?)
Thanks for your help
Thanks for your help
K
Karazenpo
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sstiger5 said:
sstiger5, You're welcome. No, that's all I picked up too, the mawashi uke right and left blocks with dynamic tension. Professor Cerio used #1 Kata (Circle of the Tiger as the nucleus of NCK), #2 Kata (Circle of the Leopard), #6 Kata (created by Gm. Pesare) inspired Circle of the Panther, Stature of the Crane, 8 Point Blocking System and Taikyoku Shodan are all forms from Pesare's KGS tree. Why the name Cat #3? Professor Cerio told me he favored the movements from the 'cat family' in his perspective of kenpo. Yes, there are several cat stances which includes a short 'cat walk' similiar to the one in Shaolin Kempo's Pinan #4.
punisher73
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Does anyone have a link where the 10pt blocking system is described? Also, when talking about Oyama and a tension breathing exercise, it sounds an awful lot like Tensho kata that teaches alot of different blocks. If anyone is familiar with this how does it compare to the 10pt?
K
Karazenpo
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The Kai said:
Todd, Circle of the Tiger is simply a more complex version of Karazenpo's Kata #1 demonstrating self defense in a tight circle. It's fundamental structure is the same as "1 kata with a some additional and modified techniques but the basic structure is still there if you look beneath the surface.
- Thread Starter
- #9
Begin at front position with hands at sides. Bow step out with your right into a horse stance as bring both hands up to start in front of your shoulders and then the hands go down in front of the body cross right over left and execute double downward blocks with shutos. The hands then come up in front of the body right crosses in front of left and execute outward ridge hand blocks. Then you repeat - the hands go down in front of the body cross right over left and execute double downward blocks with shutos. The hands then come up in front of the body right crosses in front of left and execute outward ridge hand blocks.
Next turn your palms to face away from you (demonstrating you have no weapons) then stack your right hand on top of your left hand palms down in front of your heart (the fingers should overlap to cover all knuckles). Press both hands down your centerline until they come to rest in front of your groin.
Execute an outward backhand parry with your right while bridging with your left palm down. The right hand then executes a counter-clockwise circle and the left follows in a counter-clockwise circle. The hands end up in front of your center in two tiger claws palm heel touching right on top and execute a right tiger claw to the face and a left tiger claw to the groin.
Execute an outward backhand parry with your left while bridging with your right palm down. The left hand then executes a clockwise circle and the right follows in a clockwise circle. The hands end up in front of your center in two tiger claws palm heel touching left on top and execute a left tiger claw to the face and a right tiger claw to the groin.
The hands then shoot up your centerline overhead crossing right over left and then arcing out and down to your sides as your right foot meets your left arriving at front position. Bow.
My knowledge of tensho is that it is simiar in movement in spots but demonstrates a much different set of blocks and strikes but much more influenced on deep breathing.
Next turn your palms to face away from you (demonstrating you have no weapons) then stack your right hand on top of your left hand palms down in front of your heart (the fingers should overlap to cover all knuckles). Press both hands down your centerline until they come to rest in front of your groin.
Execute an outward backhand parry with your right while bridging with your left palm down. The right hand then executes a counter-clockwise circle and the left follows in a counter-clockwise circle. The hands end up in front of your center in two tiger claws palm heel touching right on top and execute a right tiger claw to the face and a left tiger claw to the groin.
Execute an outward backhand parry with your left while bridging with your right palm down. The left hand then executes a clockwise circle and the right follows in a clockwise circle. The hands end up in front of your center in two tiger claws palm heel touching left on top and execute a left tiger claw to the face and a right tiger claw to the groin.
The hands then shoot up your centerline overhead crossing right over left and then arcing out and down to your sides as your right foot meets your left arriving at front position. Bow.
My knowledge of tensho is that it is simiar in movement in spots but demonstrates a much different set of blocks and strikes but much more influenced on deep breathing.
- Thread Starter
- #10
Professor Shuras,
Where did all of these circle forms com from (tiger,leopard,Panther) who made those? and whats the difference between the lepopard and panther? Did Pesare use any source aterial for kata 6 ie did he use some other kata as a basis? thanks alot you are a well of information
Where did all of these circle forms com from (tiger,leopard,Panther) who made those? and whats the difference between the lepopard and panther? Did Pesare use any source aterial for kata 6 ie did he use some other kata as a basis? thanks alot you are a well of information
K
Karazenpo
Guest
sstiger5 said:
Circle of the Tiger and Leopard were based on Sonny Gascon's first and second forms. Circle of the Panther was based on George Pesare's #6 form. The basis for Pesare's 6th form were the original Karazenpo combinations along with the Mawashi Uke right and left tension breathing blocks (windmill or fan blocking-Okinawan kenpo influenced).
- Thread Starter
- #12
Professor,
thanks again for all of your help. Is there anyplace to find original KGS curriculum on tape or in print? I study Shalin Kempo in Omaha and would love to compare and contrast my material with the baseline original material. Any thoughts?
Thank you for your time and kindness
Shawn
thanks again for all of your help. Is there anyplace to find original KGS curriculum on tape or in print? I study Shalin Kempo in Omaha and would love to compare and contrast my material with the baseline original material. Any thoughts?
Thank you for your time and kindness
Shawn
K
Karazenpo
Guest
sstiger5 said:
Hi Shawn, not as of yet. Gm. Pesare has given some seminars on the original material out here in New England and the KGS BBS are available for seminars anywhere but I haven't seen anything in the works yet as far as on video or in written text but I'm sure it will happen eventually. I'll ask and see if there's anything in the works. Take care & be safe and tell Shihan Chris I was asking for him. Professor Joe
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