重心 Zhòngxīn center of gravity

[windwalker099]

Path? What path? A path you have walked is not a path until you have walked it. That means, it was created by your mind. Before, you are searching, exploring, and then afterwards, suddenly it is a path! Is that really what a "path" is?

The one you write about, but don't seem to be on...
Being a writer, would've expected that you would have understood "path"
as a metaphor for way or method.

So then, those who think they "know where they are going" -- for them, it is in the mind! Is that what you mean?

No...My comment was specifically addressed to your comments referring to me.

You have to have the right to speak for the da shi. You, sadly, do not. So you are the last one. After you, there will be 1000 more people who say different things and no one will know what is the truth.

What ever you feel it means. It's not the topic of this thread
It only exist in your mind.


Unless you have something to add towards the topic, a specific question...
or insight.

Would ask that you either start your own thread or stay off this one..

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

You have such excellent teachers and I envy you for that

"Do it again--" oh, my lord :0) When your sifu tells you "do it again" what they really mean is "I love you"

I have been very lucky to have had the teachers, training brothers, and students that have taught me. I am luckier still to continue learning from them at this age. That’s a very kind compliment, thank you very much!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Those who have had these experiences, often reluctant to post clips.

For those people who has developed "dynamic rooting", they don't talk about "static rooting".

Waijia (外家) outer practice
Neijia (内家) inner practice

I hate the distinguish between "internal" and external. I always put quote around the word "internal" because I don't believe it even exists.

Some Neijia (内家) secrets are considered as "common sense" from Waijia (外家) point of view such as sink, sticky, yield, follow, borrow force, ...

Can any "internal" guy be able to apply sink, sticky, yield, follow, borrow force, ... as good as this external guy does?

For those who can do it, they don't talk about it.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I hate the distinguish between "internal" and external. I always put quote around the word "internal" because I don't believe it even exists.

Like you, I don't put much value in distinguishing between the two. It was several hundreds of years into kung fu history before the terms "internal/external" were even applied, about the time Taoist philosophy made its way into the art (1600's).

Rather than being two different kinds of things I think they are the same thing with two different ways of approaching/teaching it - one thing being viewed from two angles. IMO this can be helpful as long this is understood. But, as the concept of internal and external developed and spread, the art morphed to fit into one or the other concept, thus artificially dividing itself.

Karate experienced its own kind of artificial stylistic divisions in the early 1900's.

 

[windwalker099]

For those who can do it, they don't talk about it.

Are you not talking about it ?
What should people talk about ?

It would be more productive and interesting to share the concept of what
重心 Zhòngxīn center of gravity means and how it's used expressed in different practices ...

Waijia (外家) outer practice / Neijia (内家) inner practice

Not the thread topic : "all martial arts developed in Asia" use this concept
expressed within their cultures in their native language.

To delineate either methods within a style or styles focused on the methods directly.
The basic idea by this, to help those within the practice to understand what the outcome of
their practice is based on.


Throwing arts vs striking arts use it in different ways,,,,

Aikido, jujutsu, Shuai jiao all use different ways of
Throwing according to their methods...

The same could be said of Boxing, xing yi, karate in striking...

Aikido, xing yi, are considered to be examples of Neijia (内家) practices..
the others Waijia (外家) outer practices

In western sports the idea of creating a shape that moves the center to gain mechanical advantage is well documented
within different sports...

some arts might use the center to make a strong base, while others might use it directly
according to their theory...

​

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are you not talking about it ?
What should people talk about ?

In these videos, when A takes B down, does A care about his own center?

If you teach your students to train these throws, will you tell them to worry about their own centers (will you talk about center)?

To lose your center on purpose can be your strong weapon.

 

[windwalker099]

The recent discussions on 含胸拔背 (hán xiōng bá bèi), expanding the back and sinking the chest used in Taiji.

Thought it might be interesting to look at it from a different viewpoint, one of functionality over what some might feel are health concerns.
含胸拔背 (hán xiōng bá bèi), among many requirements, is used as part of a whole to create a synergistic effect using the body.

Rather than being two different kinds of things I think they are the same thing with two different ways of approaching/teaching it - one thing being viewed from two angles. IMO this can be helpful as long this is understood.

Would not agree,,,for me it's a non issue...although with out it there comes a time when there is too much divergence in the underline theories by which something is thought to work to be discussed.
Why distinctions are used.

In these videos, when A takes B down, does A care about his own center?

If you teach your student to train these throws, will you tell him to worry about his own center?

In the examples shown they are methods dealing with the structure
not something my practice is based on.


Our approach is different..

The CG of a horse shoe is in the empty space.
If 2 horse shoes are joined at the ends or "heels" of the shoe they are joined.

They share a common center..

A common center can be moved, affecting the other..
How it's done, varies according to one's practice.

 

[Same Trick]

One of the best “neijia” training methods is (free)sparring, gradually one learn to properly relax while still being alert, one’s breath “sink” down and senses/awareness get greater.. Therefore martial arts solo practice that specifically visualize the core forces going on in sparring/fighting would be - Neijia.

Martial arts solo practice that put greater emphasis focusing on its own body such as direct focus on example - muscles, bones conditioning , and even direct focus on dantian, meridians and inner qi flow focus, would be - Waijia

Merry Christmas

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

In these videos, when A takes B down, does A care about his own center?

If you teach your students to train these throws, will you tell them to worry about their own centers (will you talk about center)?

To lose your center on purpose can be your strong weapon.

To contain one’s center can also be a valuable weapon, to be able to do both is superior to either.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

To contain one’s center can also be a valuable weapon, to be able to do both is superior to either.

Agree! Both has advantages.

To be able to control your own center, you can maintain mobility and combine take down and take off as 1 move. It has great value in street fight.



To satisfice your center can have many advantages too:

- Your body can land comfortable on the ground by using your opponent's body as a soft pillow.
- Your body weight can land on top of your opponent's body and cause damage.
- You can continue with your ground game from there.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Agree! Both has advantages.

To be able to control your own center, you can maintain mobility and combine take down and take off as 1 move. It has great value in street fight.



To satisfice your center can have many advantages too:

- Your body can land comfortable on the ground by using your opponent's body as a soft pillow.
- Your body weight can land on top of your opponent's body and cause damage.
- You can continue with your ground game from there.

I never disagreed with your way, I have said before, I would love a chance to train with you. I think that even a week training with you can be extremely valuable to anyone.

 

[windwalker099]

Changing the shape determines where the cg is at.
this can be done intentionally

or be un-intentional

Joining with an object "rings" "walker" or "person" can change the shape of a static or dynamic system.

Having awareness of ones own balance point, allows one to use this intentionally.
Not having this can allow others to use your own balance point against you.

Some styles rely on this directly, others indirectly.
Or some do not use this at all..

All different approaches, can be quite different in method, tactics and strategy..
None better then the other

How would you characterize your approach or focus ?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Changing the shape determines where the cg is at.
this can be done intentionally

or be un-intentional

Joining with an object "rings" "walker" or "person" can change the shape of a static or dynamic system.

Having awareness of ones own balance point, allows one to use this intentionally.
Not having this can allow others to use your own balance point against you.

Some styles rely on this directly, others indirectly.
Or some do not use this at all..

All different approaches, can be quite different in method, tactics and strategy..
None better then the other

How would you characterize your approach or focus ?

By paying attention to full body awareness, use it as necessary in whatever way is useful in the moment. Me in relationship to the earth, me in relationship to me, me in relationship to opponent.

 

[Appledog]

Why it's done may differ.

To be able to move the "center," one must first be aware of it. The center is created, in part, by the shape of the body, its functionality according to

You didn't understand what I meant and it led to a misunderstanding.

To you, because of your experience, "why it's done may differ".

To me, this is incorrect. For me, there is only one reason why it is done. If method A does not work, there is a method B, which must be taught even if method A worked. Because it is not about getting it, it is about a tradition. So what I disagree with and what I pointed out is your take on han xiong ba bei being a requirement. It is not -- but it can be.

Things like han xiong ba bei are better thought of not as requirements, but milestones. Whether or not you think you are correct or that I am not on "the path" is irrelevant. Whether you hold han xiong ba bei as a requirement for zhan zhuang, or whether you hold tuck the tailbone (weilu) as a requirement or not, is irrelevant. The true teaching will allow you to discover these things on your own "one day,". Like a recipe, you do not need to have a finished cake to look at while the one you are working on is baking. With the true teaching, one day you will suddenly realize, "Oh, it is true" and you will understand. Keeping "han xiong ba bei" before that is what is "living in the mind". I am not saying han xiong ba bei is bad. It is a valid teaching to hold it as a kind of meditation but I think it is better to discover it on your own.

 

[windwalker099]

if you have nothing to contribute to the thread don't post on it.