With a knife or other blade, put the pointy end in the other guy, keep him from doing the same to you...
Your Fighting Tip
- Thread starter Zenjael
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I think this really falls into the "well DUH!" category. Obviously you'd be more than a little foolish to attempt an attack when the opportunity to do so has not presented itself.
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
Yes. At least it can the way I do it. When I hit someone, my goal is to take them off balance both physically and mentally. So after any hit I should be able to take control of the elbow, if I did my job right.
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
Some of you may not really understand what I was talking about when I advocated attacking the elbow. As far as I can tell those against such a tactic are replying with the idea that the arm is moving too fast to accurately strike the targeted area. There are a couple of issues here to address.
1. Observe yourself punching. Your hands and fore arms can move pretty fast and be difficult to strike reliably, but your elbow doesn't actually move very much from its resting position to its outstretched position. This small area of movement lets you reliable judge where the arm is going to be and so can strike behind the elbow into the bisceps/trisceps area fairly easily.
2. Like Oaktree said, you have to move offline to avoid being struck. Moving your hips and feet into a superior position is your defense against being struck, hit the arm once you are there is the beginning of your offensive action.
3. All of this must be done with proper timing. Speed matters much less when you have a proper understanding of timing. If you know when someone is going to hit you and with what limb, then you can attack it ectly baited for it.
4. I advocate not just attacking the arm as a counter punching method to being struck, but also as a way to seize control over someone who is "turtling" while standing. If you move and strike, instinctively the opponent believes you to be aiming at the head or ribs, but does not usually consider the elbow. When you strike the elbow, you can pin it to their body with your striking hand and render it unable to attack you. At that point you can use your strikes to "climb" up towards his head or down towards his ribs or hips depending on how he reacted to your initial set up.
It's really not that hard.
1. Observe yourself punching. Your hands and fore arms can move pretty fast and be difficult to strike reliably, but your elbow doesn't actually move very much from its resting position to its outstretched position. This small area of movement lets you reliable judge where the arm is going to be and so can strike behind the elbow into the bisceps/trisceps area fairly easily.
2. Like Oaktree said, you have to move offline to avoid being struck. Moving your hips and feet into a superior position is your defense against being struck, hit the arm once you are there is the beginning of your offensive action.
3. All of this must be done with proper timing. Speed matters much less when you have a proper understanding of timing. If you know when someone is going to hit you and with what limb, then you can attack it ectly baited for it.
4. I advocate not just attacking the arm as a counter punching method to being struck, but also as a way to seize control over someone who is "turtling" while standing. If you move and strike, instinctively the opponent believes you to be aiming at the head or ribs, but does not usually consider the elbow. When you strike the elbow, you can pin it to their body with your striking hand and render it unable to attack you. At that point you can use your strikes to "climb" up towards his head or down towards his ribs or hips depending on how he reacted to your initial set up.
It's really not that hard.
chinto
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ok sparring, I am the wrong person to ask, self defense is different. In a self defense/fight situation once its obvious you can NOT walk away or evade the situation, Go for broke! if you fight YOU may DIE! use your footwork to evade attacks, if you have a chance to destroy any joint, take it unless you have a chance at the same time to instead cripple his ability to breath or even kill. On the street if they lay hands on you they wish to take your life! This stands as absolutely true up and until proven false by their actions! any attempt at a choke is deadly force and any restraint you may have had ever before loose! if there is more then one attacker, go for maximum damage to one, and yes lethal damage is a good thing. the object is survival.
one last thing, if you are good at sparring it does not mean you are good at fighting in self defense. they are night and day.
one last thing, if you are good at sparring it does not mean you are good at fighting in self defense. they are night and day.
I've been doing this for a long time now. Been in 6 MT fights and 1 MMA. Things do pick up when prepping for a fight. But normal training, we still spar hard 2-6 rounds a week. Usually 3 hard rounds. Sparring for KO's just means throwing full punches at full power, looking for the knockdown or KO. Things do heat up like in a real fight sometimes. But both sides are wearing headgear and big gloves (not the little MMA ones). Still hurts and yes, possible long term damage. But it's not easy to KO someone nor get clean shots on someone equally matched. They move, block, counter, etc. And if I'm going against someone less experienced, I won't be trying to KO them (and they should respect this to not go crazy on me). But yes, there certainly are risks, but we accept them as competitive fighters.
It's usually more brutal in pure Boxing gyms. Those guys go hard a lot more often.
This isn't the norm in professional MMA, it may suit you but most fighters don't want to risk injury before a fight. If you are KO'd in sparring do you lie to the medics who ask if you've been KO'd in the last month? No self respecting promoter wants fighters who have been KOd in the days before, fighting on their show. I thought rules were stricter in the US?
Your statement about 'knowing the risks but accepting' smacks again of being overly macho about this. This is how you train but the majoirty of fighters don't so people shouldn't be mislead into thinking MMA is overly butch
And yet a lot of people do..
Then I hope they're untrained. If not, their instructors have done a very poor job.
I'm not doubting that you can explain how this plays out in your head, but I am doubting that you can pull this off vs. someone your size, skill level and experience during hard sparring or a fight.
If trying to attack someone's arm as they're punching you works so well and just not some movie Ninja move, then full time, Martial Artists would be winning titles in Pro Boxing and Pro MMA....where they can become multi-millionaires in less than a year...drive and crash a brand new $300,000 Bently like Jon Jones who's like 23 years old....bringing glory to their style, school, etc. ...WORLDWIDE....rather than be some martial artist who makes around $10,000-30,000 a year and peddling their DVD's at seminars where less than a dozen people usually show up.
Best way to prove this is to go to a Boxing or MMA gym and ask to spar hard with someone. Go in for the free intro class and tell them you have a ton of experience and want to do some standup hard sparring. Bring all of your gear, especially headgear + mouthguard. Film it and post it on YouTube for us.
I've sparred with Hapkido guys at this one TKD/HKD school. They were red and black belts. I beat them pretty bad with my Boxing. Not saying that this means anything as they don't represent all of HKD. Not sure if they tried what you're suggesting. But I certainly wasn't allowing such as I was throwing at least 30 jabs per 3 minute rounds and pressure fighting them constantly, not allowing them to kick much at all. If it were hard sparring, I would have knocked some of them out.
Nope, this is how Pro MMA fighters train normally. With 16oz Boxing gloves, the sparring can be hard. 2-6 hard rounds a week is nothing. We wear headgear. We make sure we don't kick knees, etc. Knees are not done with the points. There's only light sparring and cardio in the last week before a fight.
Sparring for KO's just means hard sparring, and yes, full swings. It's very rare that anyone gets KO'ed when equally matched. And someone much better is not going to KO a noob. They will go easier. All of last year, only one person I remember getting KO'ed during sparring, and it was during prepping for a fight and it was a girl getting KO'ed by an instructor. She threw a superman punch and he stuck out his right cross while slipping and she flew right into it. I TKO'ed 4 last year with spinning back kicks to the liver. But that's about it. When going against pros that I know can whoop me, I don't go all out with power as they will destroy me. Going medium, gets me the same treatment...still hurts though.
I've fought in WKA and their rules stipulates no KO's recently. But if I got KO'ed during sparring a couple of weeks before, I'm not going to tell them.
Your statement about 'knowing the risks but accepting' smacks again of being overly macho about this. This is how you train but the majoirty of fighters don't so people shouldn't be mislead into thinking MMA is overly butch
Getting hit hard in the head is just the norm. I question whether you know what you're talking about. Boxing gyms are much worse. It's been like this since ever. MMA gyms are pretty tamed in comparison. When you're in the US and in the Washington DC area, let me know. I'll take you on a tour, starting at Lloyd Irvin's gyms where UFC champions trained by him from scratch.
^^what she said XDThis isn't the norm in professional MMA, it may suit you but most fighters don't want to risk injury before a fight. If you are KO'd in sparring do you lie to the medics who ask if you've been KO'd in the last month? No self respecting promoter wants fighters who have been KOd in the days before, fighting on their show. I thought rules were stricter in the US?
Your statement about 'knowing the risks but accepting' smacks again of being overly macho about this. This is how you train but the majoirty of fighters don't so people shouldn't be mislead into thinking MMA is overly butch
- Thread Starter
- #134
Seems a bit general. I'd take a step back, alternating my stance, as I reversed their technique. You'd need familiarity with a lot of different techniques, and a helluva fast reaction time, but it is doable. When that fails and I get thrown, I'm usually fast enough to grab onto them and drag them with me to the ground. I avoid grabbing. As I stepped back and reversed their hold, I'd also either redirect into a strike, or evade their strike. Not hard to tell where it'll go if they're holding onto you.
To those dubious to striking within the arms of a strike, know that it is possible given you have the reaction and speed. I've seen multiple ways to do this, as they attack, as they withdraw, as they extend, as they refold, with different iterations as well between styles. Typically if you have superiority with speed, this is a very feasible tactic.
Jaeimsu, sometimes those are your only targets to hit, strangely enough. It's a bit like how when under siege a castle will gather the sheep and surrounding people for safety. Like a castle, oft the defense is strong, but if you get within, you'll be able to annihilate the easy prey. The funny thing about people being put on the defense is that while spending less energy than the attacker, they often pay the price more if the attacker knows what is doing. Keeping them confused, and wearing them down through attrition, will often always leave the sheep vulnerable I've found. Sometimes you use your hands, theyll get chopped up. So you keep range and use the range kicks to wear em down. I do this in sparring.
That was my point. Footwork alone isnt enough.
- Thread Starter
- #136
well, maybe if you're in an anime... :ultracool
But that being said, out of 129 I find your post analyzing how I posted this to be the closest (and rather spot-on) concerning this whole thread.
Handwork, footwork alone, anything, never works in martial arts. Where the head goes, so must the body. Many have bad habits where when they punch they forget they have legs, they get too focused, and distracted by that focus. Seems crazy, but it does happen. Some get so focused and involved in trying they dont even notice when others tap out... so it can even get dangerous, these bad habits.
But when the body, and practitioner moves as a cohesive unit, even if treating each of his natural weapons individually, one can wreak incredible havoc. I stress that people who have been at it for awhile should, if their body allows, have a speed between 4 full power punches in a second, and six. But while punching, I stress for people to also attempt to kick with efficacy. You can see how even without pulling a quick, and draining flurry, this can overwhelm. And it's all following what you say; keep it together. I like that tip, I hope you don't mind if I use it today.
It reminds me of kendo and kenjutsu. You can do the step, but without the sword or cutting technique, you can't do kendo. Same goes for each, lacking the others. You can raise a sword or stick, but if you dont step and cut through, you might as well hit them with a baseball bat.
I'm sure you train as you say you do but don't assume that what you do is the norm in the MMA world. I'm not going to argue with you but after nearly 13 years of coaching, cornering, reffing and judging professional MMA I may know just a bit more than you. In 20 years of total martial arts I've also had more kick boxing fights and even MMA fights than you. I've grown up with professional boxing as well as my father was both a pro boxer and a trainer. I teach and coach MMA, how many fighters had you trained? I'm sure you are good at what you do and that it works for you but you are assuming you know how the pros train. You don't need to put others down all the time to make your point.
The medical questions about KOs are there for a purpose, if you want to put your health and safety at risk then you are a fool.
Take all your gear ideas and put them aside. Bare fists on bare flesh is what this thread is all about.
Sounds kinky. but the gear is what may save the guy with the secret Ninja move from ending up in the hospital for a long time should he goes to an MMA or Boxing gym to try that.
Maybe you do small time events in small towns in the sticks. I trained at Lloyd Irvin's gym and this is how his training programs are. And he's had 2 UFC champions, 1 WEC and a bunch more UFC contenders. Then I also boxed at Sugar Ray's where there quite a few Pro Boxers there, including Sugar Ray Leonard himself...and this is how they spar there and at most other Boxing gyms with fighters.
Yea but you fight women. And you're fought as a low level amateur I bet.
[/QUOTE] I've grown up with professional boxing as well as my father was both a pro boxer and a trainer. I teach and coach MMA, how many fighters had you trained? I'm sure you are good at what you do and that it works for you but you are assuming you know how the pros train. You don't need to put others down all the time to make your point. [/QUOTE]
Hahah, wait you're complaining about me putting you down? Talk about being a hypocrite.
Uh yea, no kidding Sherlock. It's also for legal indemnification of the organizing venue. Full contact fighting in itself is always a risk to begin with. Thanks for caring.
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