Your Ethnicity
- Thread starter Logan
- Start date
I'm 1/4 Flip, 1/4 Tlingit (SE Alaska Native American), and 1/2 German. It's funny that most Asians I meet can see a little something in me and usually always ask. Other Tlingits (full bloods) or other tribes do not recognize/respect me as Native because I was not raised in Alaska or on a res. Germans don't recognize me because I don't look white. I am usually discriminated against by people from my own heritage because of one or the other listed above.
It's funny that most Mexicans (and everyone else I meet) think I'm Latino and just automatically suspect I speak Spanish.
As for MA, I never really had a good friendship with higher advanced belts. Even there it seemed there was a class system.
But I always list myself as Alaskan Native with high hopes of getting a few extra points on government applications. So far no luck.
I'm just an American from NoCal with little status...for now.
It's funny that most Mexicans (and everyone else I meet) think I'm Latino and just automatically suspect I speak Spanish.
As for MA, I never really had a good friendship with higher advanced belts. Even there it seemed there was a class system.
But I always list myself as Alaskan Native with high hopes of getting a few extra points on government applications. So far no luck.
I'm just an American from NoCal with little status...for now.
Good possibility! The communities were quite small back in those days!
I think mine were in Newbury in 1635 and later in 1644 they were in Andover. I believe I read they were from Wales.
I am Canadian! eh?
But my family roots trace back in many directions. Mostly to the slavic countries of Ukraine and Poland. Probably why I love my perogies and cabbage rolls as much as I do, oh, and garlic. Can never have enough garlic.
On my mother's side there is some native american as well. Cree, from what I am told.
But my family roots trace back in many directions. Mostly to the slavic countries of Ukraine and Poland. Probably why I love my perogies and cabbage rolls as much as I do, oh, and garlic. Can never have enough garlic.
On my mother's side there is some native american as well. Cree, from what I am told.
tellner
Senior Master
geocad, it's a lot like my wife's situation. Her mother is from China. Her father is Black but with a fair bit of White and a strong dash of Native American. Latins think she's Latina. Filipinos think she's one of them. So do Nepalis, Seychelloise and a few others. The ones whose curiosity wins out in a fight with their propriety usually ask "Where are you from?" She answers "Philadelphia, but I don't like to talk about it."
I agree here because I'm seeing the blurring of the lines here as well. And that is important because racial strife is still evident and it helps when it's difficult to call someone an ethnic slur because they're half and half or split into thirds or even quarters.
My father's side came from 2, 4, or 3 brothers (nobody knows exactly how-many) that immigrated from (Dublin) Ireland and settled into (what was before then) North Carolina. From there those brothers turned out to be quite prolific. There has been a member of my father's family that fought in every single American war since before the declaration of independence.
My mother's family came from Holland. I don't know too much about her side unfortunately.
Still, like BigShadow I call myself an American without a hyphen... and I think it should be that way. Right now the only ethnic group still using hyphenated identification of their cultural identity are African Americans, or at least that's all I hear most about. I have heard terms of Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Chinese Americans and thanks to Cheech Marin: Mexican Americans. But you rarely hear it... (at least I rarely hear it :idunno: )
I am of the belief that if you and your family has been in this country since the post-industrial revolution (and/or before) then you're Americans... PERIOD! Other words if your great-grand father/mother were born here then...
Same goes for Brits and their increasing immigration and likewise with France and other countries that are experiencing an increase of non-euro population. Several generations born and died in a particular place makes that (present) generation OF that place.
As far as racial purity... well geez what's the point? Human beings are human beings. There's been enough blood shed over time by every race to prove that the color of the blood is the same.
Culturally sure we should hold on to those roots because they help us as individuals identify who we are and where we come from so to learn from our past in order to help see/guide the future. But as groups? It helps blur the lines sometimes.
Martial Artists as an cultural or ethnic group? Might ask the same for Snow Boarders, Cavers, Scuba Divers, Hunters, Fishermen (Fresh and Salt), and so on. It's easy to blur the lines there as well... i.e. I'm a caver who's also a martial artist... or is it a martial artist who's also a caver?
WHO CARES??
:wink1:
not me
My ethnic background is predominantly Irish.
My nationality is American.
I am elements of both those things, but neither of those things are ME, make sense?
My nationality is American.
I am elements of both those things, but neither of those things are ME, make sense?
Well here is what I have to say:
Native American - As I was born here in the USA.
My family name goes back to before there was an official colony, it was just a settlement or two. Add in some mixing of Native American Indian, not enough to claim or get credit anywhere.
On Paper I am Caucasion.
In life everyone thinks I am something but most deffinitely not WASP.
Anything Med, or Arabic, or Hispanic. (* Make sure you add in those that use the negative terms for all thsoe cultures as well *)
I agree that I prefer to associate with those I call friends. It does not matter where they grew up or where they were born, it does matter hwo they act to me and others.
*************
As to Martial Artists I agree with Delusionsal
Ok maybe social.
Native American - As I was born here in the USA.
My family name goes back to before there was an official colony, it was just a settlement or two. Add in some mixing of Native American Indian, not enough to claim or get credit anywhere.
On Paper I am Caucasion.
In life everyone thinks I am something but most deffinitely not WASP.
Anything Med, or Arabic, or Hispanic. (* Make sure you add in those that use the negative terms for all thsoe cultures as well *)
I agree that I prefer to associate with those I call friends. It does not matter where they grew up or where they were born, it does matter hwo they act to me and others.
*************
As to Martial Artists I agree with Delusionsal
Ok maybe social.
bluemtn
Senior Master
Well here is what I have to say:
Native American - As I was born here in the USA.
My family name goes back to before there was an official colony, it was just a settlement or two. Add in some mixing of Native American Indian, not enough to claim or get credit anywhere.
On Paper I am Caucasion.
In life everyone thinks I am something but most deffinitely not WASP.
Anything Med, or Arabic, or Hispanic. (* Make sure you add in those that use the negative terms for all thsoe cultures as well *)
I agree that I prefer to associate with those I call friends. It does not matter where they grew up or where they were born, it does matter hwo they act to me and others.
*************
As to Martial Artists I agree with Delusionsal
I couldn't agree more with these posts, especially where I made bold. Great posts, you guys!
Ethnicity is an awkward kind of question.
On the one hand, it's meaningless because culture is a much stronger force on how you develop and, skin colour aside, everyone is much more mixed than humans ever used to be so there are fewer significant 'markers' any more.
On the other, it's very important as it's what used to make tribes hang together. That's why what we call 'racism' is so enduring i.e. it's an almost genetic level 'programming' that tells us whether a person we meet is 'our tribe' or 'possible resource competitior'.
With a globalising community, that sort of ethinic divisor is a hinderance rather than a help as it acts as a lever to provoke conflict, particularly amongst those unable or unwilling to use reason to overcome instinct.
Anyhow, 'serious' bit over, my ethnicity is as typically mixed as anyones. I'm Midlands English by birth, which makes me about 30% Norman, 30% Viking/Norse, 30% Celt and 10% Saxon + who-knows. The family name means something like "Red Bearded Men of the Valley/Dwellers at the Edge of the Moor" and is considered to be Viking in origin.
Thanks to the Norman bit, I'm actually in line for a title ... about 200th in line and rising (or rather 'falling' as its getting further away) :lol:. That's not out of the ordinary for 'established' families in Britain tho', the nobility of past ages being rather infamous for generic 'zipper' (or should that be 'codpiece'?) problems.
My families been in the same region for nearly 1000 years (we're in the Doomsday Book for my home town) - I'm fairly far flung from the tree as I've made it twenty miles from where I was born {darned new-fangled modern transportation spreading the family around :lol:}.
On the one hand, it's meaningless because culture is a much stronger force on how you develop and, skin colour aside, everyone is much more mixed than humans ever used to be so there are fewer significant 'markers' any more.
On the other, it's very important as it's what used to make tribes hang together. That's why what we call 'racism' is so enduring i.e. it's an almost genetic level 'programming' that tells us whether a person we meet is 'our tribe' or 'possible resource competitior'.
With a globalising community, that sort of ethinic divisor is a hinderance rather than a help as it acts as a lever to provoke conflict, particularly amongst those unable or unwilling to use reason to overcome instinct.
Anyhow, 'serious' bit over, my ethnicity is as typically mixed as anyones. I'm Midlands English by birth, which makes me about 30% Norman, 30% Viking/Norse, 30% Celt and 10% Saxon + who-knows
. The family name means something like "Red Bearded Men of the Valley/Dwellers at the Edge of the Moor" and is considered to be Viking in origin.Thanks to the Norman bit, I'm actually in line for a title ... about 200th in line and rising (or rather 'falling' as its getting further away) :lol:. That's not out of the ordinary for 'established' families in Britain tho', the nobility of past ages being rather infamous for generic 'zipper' (or should that be 'codpiece'?) problems.
My families been in the same region for nearly 1000 years (we're in the Doomsday Book for my home town) - I'm fairly far flung from the tree as I've made it twenty miles from where I was born {darned new-fangled modern transportation spreading the family around :lol:}.
tellner
Senior Master
While I agree in theory, the difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
"Race" is a scientifically meaningless concept when applied to human beings. But in practical terms it's real. And the people who say they don't see color or that ethnicity is irrelevant in America are almost entirely White. From the other side of the fence being of African, Latin American, Native North American, Middle Eastern or Asian descent still makes a tremendous difference although less so than before and less so for East Asians than the others.
Not that many years ago a friend of my father's was President of the American Nuclear Medical Society. They were having their annual convention down South, and he made the mistake of leaving the hotel. He ran into a police officer who said "What's your name, boy?"
He replied "I'm Dr. So-and-so, President of the American Nuc-"
"I said 'Whats your name, boy'!"
He said "Right then I knew exactly what I was, Doctor ******."
Did anyone have any trouble figuring out the skin color of the two people involved or which six letters were asterisked out? You in the back? You couldn't tell. Man, you are a damned poor liar.
"Race" is a scientifically meaningless concept when applied to human beings. But in practical terms it's real. And the people who say they don't see color or that ethnicity is irrelevant in America are almost entirely White. From the other side of the fence being of African, Latin American, Native North American, Middle Eastern or Asian descent still makes a tremendous difference although less so than before and less so for East Asians than the others.
Not that many years ago a friend of my father's was President of the American Nuclear Medical Society. They were having their annual convention down South, and he made the mistake of leaving the hotel. He ran into a police officer who said "What's your name, boy?"
He replied "I'm Dr. So-and-so, President of the American Nuc-"
"I said 'Whats your name, boy'!"
He said "Right then I knew exactly what I was, Doctor ******."
Did anyone have any trouble figuring out the skin color of the two people involved or which six letters were asterisked out? You in the back? You couldn't tell. Man, you are a damned poor liar.
tradrockrat
2nd Black Belt
intersting thread.
My fathers side has been here since colonial times (there is a Carroll on the Declaration of Independance and another on the Bill of Rights - distant cousins, not direct lineage), but I still identify myself as Irish-American with pride.
In this thread people have made some very good points about the multicultural diversity in this country, and I believe myself to be American, but my frankly, many of my cultural mores and beliefs are heavily influenced from my Irish Heritage. (for the record, my fathers family is all Irish, and my mother is half Irish, half Italian).
I don't feel that I can seperate MY beliefs from the beliefs that I was surrounded with as a youth - and those beliefs can be traced back to my Irish heritage. I have family in Ireland that are visited anytime one of my extended family makes it over to Rosscommon.
My family has a long and illustrious history in Ireland - my original ancestor was Brian Boru's war champion - that's what my last name actually means - Fierce or Victorious Warrior. My family is one of the few Irish to have a tartan color and recognized clan (Irish clans are NOT like Scottish). Why would I ever throw that away or ignore it?
I'm proud of the history of Irish immigrants. My actual straight line of descent starts in America in 1864 when a relative of Daniel Carroll of Carrollton came to America in order to eat and meet his rich relatives in Maryland - that didn't work out cause the Union army was waiting for them at the docks, so some joined the Army and others ran as far south as they could - they were tired of fighting - and found themselves in Texas. Over the years they eventually migrated back up to Maryland. Now I brought it back to Texas . A family member has fought in every war America has ever had until my last cousin left the army after Desert Storm.
Anyway - I think it's clear I am proud of my heritage, but when the **** hits the fan or it comes down to it - I am American first and forever, or as my grandfather used to say, "American by birth, Irish by the grace of God." I was born an American and that's who I am.
I don't believe Martial Arts belongs in the same category as American, Irish-American, etc.
My fathers side has been here since colonial times (there is a Carroll on the Declaration of Independance and another on the Bill of Rights - distant cousins, not direct lineage), but I still identify myself as Irish-American with pride.
In this thread people have made some very good points about the multicultural diversity in this country, and I believe myself to be American, but my frankly, many of my cultural mores and beliefs are heavily influenced from my Irish Heritage. (for the record, my fathers family is all Irish, and my mother is half Irish, half Italian).
I don't feel that I can seperate MY beliefs from the beliefs that I was surrounded with as a youth - and those beliefs can be traced back to my Irish heritage. I have family in Ireland that are visited anytime one of my extended family makes it over to Rosscommon.
My family has a long and illustrious history in Ireland - my original ancestor was Brian Boru's war champion - that's what my last name actually means - Fierce or Victorious Warrior. My family is one of the few Irish to have a tartan color and recognized clan (Irish clans are NOT like Scottish). Why would I ever throw that away or ignore it?
I'm proud of the history of Irish immigrants. My actual straight line of descent starts in America in 1864 when a relative of Daniel Carroll of Carrollton came to America in order to eat and meet his rich relatives in Maryland - that didn't work out cause the Union army was waiting for them at the docks, so some joined the Army and others ran as far south as they could - they were tired of fighting - and found themselves in Texas. Over the years they eventually migrated back up to Maryland. Now I brought it back to Texas
. A family member has fought in every war America has ever had until my last cousin left the army after Desert Storm.Anyway - I think it's clear I am proud of my heritage, but when the **** hits the fan or it comes down to it - I am American first and forever, or as my grandfather used to say, "American by birth, Irish by the grace of God." I was born an American and that's who I am.
I don't believe Martial Arts belongs in the same category as American, Irish-American, etc.
To Tellner
It might be the case that certain regions of certain countries have this problem more than others. It's not universal any longer (I hope).
Sadly, those in the media seeking to be 'right on' broadcast attitudes to the world that are less than helpful.
It's not that it is wrong to highlight problems that exist but it is wrong that these 'problems' then get exported to places where they didn't previously have houseroom.
I've seen this process in action here in England where, by dint of hard work from leaders in the community and home grown programming (usually sit-coms) we had gotten over the influx of (for example) West Indians to Britain. The racism had started to abate in other words.
Then we imported American programming with its ever prevelent "Is it 'cos I am Black?" undercurrent. That set off a new wave of reverse racism that lingers today and is even more off-target because the individuals who use it to their own purposes have nothing to do with the culture that spawned it.
Now I have to say that there is nothing wrong with socially aware TV. It serves a valuable purpose. But when it is used to ignite a previous non-issue because it broadcasts attitudes that exist in another society, then it becomes a problem of it's own. It should be made mandatory that people realise that altho' a large percentage of the influential media of the world comes from America, not all of the human facets in that media exist outside of the country of origin.
Anyway, how did this get so serious all of a sudden?
It might be the case that certain regions of certain countries have this problem more than others. It's not universal any longer (I hope).
Sadly, those in the media seeking to be 'right on' broadcast attitudes to the world that are less than helpful.
It's not that it is wrong to highlight problems that exist but it is wrong that these 'problems' then get exported to places where they didn't previously have houseroom.
I've seen this process in action here in England where, by dint of hard work from leaders in the community and home grown programming (usually sit-coms) we had gotten over the influx of (for example) West Indians to Britain. The racism had started to abate in other words.
Then we imported American programming with its ever prevelent "Is it 'cos I am Black?" undercurrent. That set off a new wave of reverse racism that lingers today and is even more off-target because the individuals who use it to their own purposes have nothing to do with the culture that spawned it.
Now I have to say that there is nothing wrong with socially aware TV. It serves a valuable purpose. But when it is used to ignite a previous non-issue because it broadcasts attitudes that exist in another society, then it becomes a problem of it's own. It should be made mandatory that people realise that altho' a large percentage of the influential media of the world comes from America, not all of the human facets in that media exist outside of the country of origin.
Anyway, how did this get so serious all of a sudden?
Do you think your attitude would alter if your geographic location changed?
For example, at home you may consider yourself an individual or of a particular group. Say, you wind up in a foreign land - do you think you would gravitate towards the closest connection you have, whether it be people from your country, continent etc or would you remain individual or open to change and so on... The more I think about it, the more I consider identity to be a complete variable and not as straightforward as some would like to think. Like a pyramid of connections.
For example, at home you may consider yourself an individual or of a particular group. Say, you wind up in a foreign land - do you think you would gravitate towards the closest connection you have, whether it be people from your country, continent etc or would you remain individual or open to change and so on... The more I think about it, the more I consider identity to be a complete variable and not as straightforward as some would like to think. Like a pyramid of connections.
Kwiter
Green Belt
American! With no hyphens.Family has been here since 1635.
Mohawk, My Family has been here since the dawn of time.
O:nen ki' wahi'
Shaderon
Master of Arts
That would depend on other people, if I was pressured and life made difficult for me, I'd probably go wherever it was easiest. I am a peaceful warrior, not an antagonistic one. If all people treated me with respect then I would gravitate towards the place I wanted to be, and the experiences I wanted to have. However if I was pressured to choose my "own kind" for company, I'd still talk to whoever was willing to talk to me, no matter who they were.
tellner
Senior Master
It certainly does make a difference. My father in law is Black. Here in America he's always been Black and always will be Black. When the family moved to Tanzania he was suddenly White. His wife is from China. She was still Chinese. Their children were White.
These things matter. The fact that the distinctions are largely in peoples' heads doesn't change the fact.
These things matter. The fact that the distinctions are largely in peoples' heads doesn't change the fact.
Hold the boat!! Most anthropologists agree about genetic markers in mixed Americans that identify their historic link and/or heritage. For example, the shovel-shaped incisors are a definate marker for 90% of Native American Indians and East Asians still identified today. In addition, the Diego blood group is identified in higher frequencies of both east and northeast asians and Native American populations.
So, if you think you may have some Native American or Asian but are not sure, ask your dentist if you have shovel-shaped incisors.
Sorry about the rave. My ex-wife is an anthropologist/archaeologist and educated me a little on the subject. Google works too. Cheers! ~G
Not quite the point I was making, geocad .
When I spoke of 'markers' I was talking about the obvious, overt, and above all, visible, racial characteristics that people latch on to when stereotyping ethnic groups.
. When I spoke of 'markers' I was talking about the obvious, overt, and above all, visible, racial characteristics that people latch on to when stereotyping ethnic groups.
