Your Art on Screen: Help or Hindrance?

[MartialIntent]

The main point that I wanted to make was that I think the reason Kung Fu goes so well on screen is that they have had a LONG time to work it out before it ever made it to the big screen.

I guess you can't take just any art and throw it on the screen without a great deal of exageration and improv.

Good point and while popular Kung Fu cinema has undoubtedly benefitted from the years of Bejing / Peking Opera performances with Jackie Chan [and Sammo Hung too as I recall], how have the interim years of dedicated, focussed ninjutsu training here in the west translated to our screens? Ninja Turtles and Power Rangers. Hmmmm... I guess that's just where we're at.

I still think that to say an art [any art] has little or no visual appeal is in many ways hiding our talents under a bushel. I think the more intelligent movies we're glimpsing of late use the arts way more subtly than the gaudy brashness of those awful ninja movies of old.

I don't think there's a need for any flamboyancy, simply a more progressive and intelligent application of the arts on screen. Ninjutsu I feel, is ripe for it - especially with the art filtering into many law enforcement agencies - just using that as a potential example. Though let's be honest, as a source of intelligent innovation in the martial arts on screen, Hollywood likely wouldn't be your first port of call...

Respects!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

posit: if everybody studies martial arts, the world will be better for it

iteration: if everybody in the world is (not has, is) a black belt and lives in that space, the world will be much better for it.

conclusion: anything that brings people to the martial arts is ultimately a good thing.

movies and tv portrayals generate interest and are therefore good. i have one student who trains because 'batman begins' inspired her to become a stronger better person.

my only issue is the popularity of the mma these days. it's cool and fun to watch, but true martial spirit is rare among practitioners of those sports. i think the attitude behind mma is hurting the general culture of martial arts and setting a poor example for our students.

just my 1 1/2 cents canadian.

 

[Bigshadow]

movies and tv portrayals generate interest and are therefore good. i have one student who trains because 'batman begins' inspired her to become a stronger better person.

I sort of agree but... Only a few (relatively) have the spirit or heart for it.

BTW, 'Batman Begins' was awesome! I felt the message was very strong and I think that is why I enjoyed it so much. That movie is a keeper.

 

[MartialIntent]

I sort of agree but... Only a few (relatively) have the spirit or heart for it.

BTW, 'Batman Begins' was awesome! I felt the message was very strong and I think that is why I enjoyed it so much. That movie is a keeper.

Agree totally. For me a good example of an intelligent fight-based [if you can call it that] piece of work that retains some flavor of physical authenticity - obviously within a fantasy framework - and a modicum of integrity in the central character while still maintaining high receipts at the box office. I think this gives at least some pointers to a more subtle future path of martial arts movies.

Respects!

 

[MartialIntent]

my only issue is the popularity of the mma these days. it's cool and fun to watch, but true martial spirit is rare among practitioners of those sports. i think the attitude behind mma is hurting the general culture of martial arts and setting a poor example for our students.

When you refer to an MMA attitude, I wonder can you elaborate a wee bit? I'm interested in your opinion as MMA / UFC / K-1 was something else I had in mind at the outset of the thread.

I have to admit I'm a fan of K-1 the same way as I am of the Gracies' attitude of taking on allcomers because it very much widens the scope of individual arts placing them directly in the firing line of other arts. I feel this is a good thing for martial arts as practised in the real world. Because let's face it, in a self-defense situation we're basically NEVER gonna come up against someone not only trained in our art and our style but also in our weight range.

However, I'm not the biggest fan of the UFC - I can't help but see this as a cynical exploitation of mixed arts as nothing more than a somewhat gratuitous and superficial marketing campaign - my personal opinion only!

Respects!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

When you refer to an MMA attitude, I wonder can you elaborate a wee bit? I'm interested in your opinion as MMA / UFC / K-1 was something else I had in mind at the outset of the thread.

I find (and I'm speaking in generalities -- there are exceptions on both sides) that the sport/combat mindset behind most MMA programs has eliminated the spiritual and personal growth aspect behind more traditional martial training.

MMA takes folks who want to be badasses and turns them into badasses. Accomplishes the goal quickly and efficiently.

Traditional martial arts takes folks who want to be badasses and in the course of teaching them to be badasses helps them realize they don't need to be. How many fights have you been in? Not nearly enough to justify the expense, effort and dedication you've put into your training. It's the personal growth from martial training that makes it worthwhile. MMA misses out on that.

So while anything that spreads the word is good, I think the current popularity of MMA dilutes that word and is therefore not quite so good.

That said, K-1 and UFC are wicked fun to watch.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I sort of agree but... Only a few (relatively) have the spirit or heart for it.

I disagree emphatically. Everybody has the spirit and the heart. I'd respectfully submit that it's our job to help them find it.

And yeah, Batman Begins bloody well rocked.

 

[MartialIntent]

I disagree emphatically. Everybody has the spirit and the heart. I'd respectfully submit that it's our job to help them find it.

Excellent point! This is what I've been trying to get at in another thread: that for those who express no interest, martial arts can more than accomodate their preferences but for those who wish to follow a path of personal spiritual enlightenment, often there's no real point of focus for them within their own practice halls...

Respects!

 

[Bigshadow]

I disagree emphatically. Everybody has the spirit and the heart. I'd respectfully submit that it's our job to help them find it.

I will agree to disagree! There are people out there that are just plain heartless and evil and I seriously doubt that they have either the heart or spirit.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

oooh. good point. i hadn't really been thinking of bad guys when i said that.

of course, they probably have the heart and spirit to become solid technicians. and wouldn't training under the right teacher help them become good guys?

interesting question: are bad people qualitatively different from good people (and thus immune to becoming better through martial arts), or is it just a matter of spectrum (in which case martial training could in time make them good people)?

should we make a new thread on this? might be fun.

 

[stickarts]

If a movie brings recognition to the art and draws people in out of curiosity, I have found it to be a good thing. Once they are in the door they learn what it's really all about.

 

[Bigshadow]

of course, they probably have the heart and spirit to become solid technicians.

Yes, I am sure they do, but... Just imagine how they might use what they learn and it's affect on society?

 

[bushidomartialarts]

true.

that's a question any teacher deals with when brought a (child or teen, usually), to 'fix'. "am i going to help this person change, or am i creating a more effective thug?"

there have been a few studies done, most notably michael truslon's research in the late 80's, that seem to show that martial arts can change people even when they've gone pretty far down that road.

now, i've fired 3 students from my school because i believed they were beyond my ability to 'fix'. doesn't mean they were beyond anybody's ability.

what can i say? i'm an optimist.

 

[MartialIntent]

true.

that's a question any teacher deals with when brought a (child or teen, usually), to 'fix'. "am i going to help this person change, or am i creating a more effective thug?"

there have been a few studies done, most notably michael truslon's research in the late 80's, that seem to show that martial arts can change people even when they've gone pretty far down that road.

now, i've fired 3 students from my school because i believed they were beyond my ability to 'fix'. doesn't mean they were beyond anybody's ability.

what can i say? i'm an optimist.

Well, if I could just weigh in? I have trouble with the black-and-white, good / evil person definition. At the end of the day, we're all human and each and every one of us has the capacity to [and in a certain set of circumstances WILL] inflict harm or injury on another. So to say someone is evil perhaps needs some qualification... There's no doubt we humans have perpetrated some heinous, horrific acts on one another. Some people are in fact only known to us through the cruel and barbaric crimes they have committed: evil, un-human acts no doubt, but does that mean these people are evil period with no faculty for good?

I think often cruel acts are committed because the perpetrator has no concept whatsoever of an alternative. Often the same for drug and substance users and abusers.

I have worked within the martial arts framework with kids who would under our categorization be "evil" but I believe for a great many, no one has sat them down and said, look, here's another, better way. I think our arts have an amazing ability to reach out to people and pull them back from precarious edges and give them targets, give them courage, discipline and a greater sense of respect.

And a final point - rather than turning out super-evil people who are now super-fighters, I agree with the quoted research above - and I think it's something we all know intrinsically ourselves, and that's that once we know how to fight, it actually makes us calmer, more controlled, and thereby less active in seeking altercation and more disciplined in situations where physical confrontation might have seemed the obvious option. In other words, our arts give us the alternative.

Anyways, how did we get here? Which thread is this? And what was I saying?

Respects!

 

[MartialIntent]

If a movie brings recognition to the art and draws people in out of curiosity, I have found it to be a good thing. Once they are in the door they learn what it's really all about.

In your experience, do new students who come to your art motivated by movies / TV have unrealistic expectations of what they're about to embark upon? And would these students be likely to go the distance or do they pack up once it becomes obvious they'll maybe never do a Bruce Lee one-inch punch?

In my experience, a substantial proportion of Steven Seagal-wannabees actually stay because oddly they see their initial training as first steps towards actually doing what their martial arts screen hero can do. This is something I wouldn't actually discourage. We all have our different motivations after all. And who am I to say they'll NOT be Steven Seagal one day.

Respects!

 

[bushidomartialarts]

In my experience, a substantial proportion of Steven Seagal-wannabees actually stay because oddly they see their initial training as first steps towards actually doing what their martial arts screen hero can do. This is something I wouldn't actually discourage. We all have our different motivations after all. And who am I to say they'll NOT be Steven Seagal one day.

Respects!

the motivation for somebody to start lessons is almost always different, often radically different, from the reasons they choose to stay. if they come with unrealistic expectations (see, martialintent? i really am on topic. really. ), it's our job as teachers and fellow students to help them understand how powerful and wonderful the reality can be.

 

[MartialIntent]

the motivation for somebody to start lessons is almost always different, often radically different, from the reasons they choose to stay. if they come with unrealistic expectations (see, martialintent? i really am on topic. really. ), it's our job as teachers and fellow students to help them understand how powerful and wonderful the reality can be.

I agree, and I'd go further and say that since martial arts dwell in many houses, no matter what an individual's preference is, there's a home for them.

Some newer students, even after the unnatural sheen has been polished off the art by the realities of practise and learning technique, still do aspire to what they've seen in the movies - I'd often think of that when watching the after-class "horseplay" where new [and advanced too] act out familiar movie scenarios - and I'm not being condescending or aloof - just something I've casually noticed and would not attempt to train out of a student as I feel that motivation whatever form it takes [gratuitous fighting excepted] is a key factor in student retention.

Respects!