Your 1st Dan testing..
- Thread starter Sylo
- Start date
CDKJudoka
Purple Belt
TKD-Old ITF Style
1st Dan BB testing.
All Basic Techniques- Stances, Blocks, Kicks, Hand techniques
All of the 1 steps 3 per Gup, until Brown Belt which has 12.
4 station two board breaks
5 Original 1 steps and 5 hapkido SD
And the "Gauntlet". Basically 45 mins of medium to full contact sparring against any BBs testing for there promotion. All gear except for hand and foot pads, takedowns allowed.
All Forms from 10th Gup up to 1st Dan
2 Original Weapons forms with Short Stick and Long Staff.
1st Dan BB testing.
All Basic Techniques- Stances, Blocks, Kicks, Hand techniques
All of the 1 steps 3 per Gup, until Brown Belt which has 12.
4 station two board breaks
5 Original 1 steps and 5 hapkido SD
And the "Gauntlet". Basically 45 mins of medium to full contact sparring against any BBs testing for there promotion. All gear except for hand and foot pads, takedowns allowed.
All Forms from 10th Gup up to 1st Dan
2 Original Weapons forms with Short Stick and Long Staff.
AMP-RYU
Black Belt
AMP-RYU
Black Belt
one on one fighting for about 30 min, then one on two for another 30 min, then the ultimate three on one for 30 min. Then if you can stand you get your stripe!
miguksaram
Master of Arts
I've got to ask...who are you to question someone else's testing? First and foremost, there is a lot more to some people's testing than if they know the material. Some testings are meant to build character or make you feel you are part of a higher group of people.
If we are to question worthiness in 20 minutes, then why not just give them a belt when you first meet the student. Can't you tell if they are worth of it then? After that they just have to learn the material and won't have to focus on the 2 inch piece of cloth wrapped around their waist.
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
And this may well be the most important part of the testing, especially when you're under the high pressure usually associated with dan testings. Maintaining composure and displaying proper etiquette shows that you've reached a certain level of maturity as a person and it may also allow you to deal with stress better so that you may perform the required techniques better.
Pax,
Chris
chrispillertkd
Senior Master
Oops, a slight update to my previous posting. My instructors also had a portion of the black belt exam dedicated to flexibility. We would have to demonstrate front and side splits as well as other stretches. This was a common area for testing from 10th gup through III dan.
Pax,
Chris
Pax,
Chris
I'm not so sure you took that point the way it was intended. Also, given the stark nature of 'conversation' on the Net, you words may well have come across as far ruder than you think.
I think some of us are coming at this from the view that those administering the testing know the students involved and thus it is a given that they 'know' the material. To my mind, the point at which testing is taking place is not really the time for the student to be building character; tho' if your meaning is that they show their character then, I agree. Again, if the students are known to the examiners then this is moot.
I think a slight misinterpretation of the posters meaning. I know that I certainly can form a reliable judgement of a student of higher grade quite quickly and that is what I feel he meant.
A beginner, however, would be much more problematic. You cannot really judge very accurately how a person will grow in the arts until they've been at it a while (tho' some are clearly not in it for the 'long road' when you first lay eyes on them
).
miguksaram
Master of Arts
youngman said:
With this statement made, it sounds like he is belittling the other person's test because it was more strict than his own...plus the last comment questions the testing methodology as well as the judgement of the instructor, in my opinoin, in a rude way. Perhaps a better way for the poster to phrase it would just be to ask the question "Is there a reason for the long test?" or "What is the tradition behind having to do the long test?" or simply "Wow, your test seems a bit harsh any reason why?"
If he finds my questioning of his questioning rude then perhaps a revisit of the original post made by YM would in order to see why I would pop off like that. I make no apologies for the question or whatever tone it may come off as based on the current understanding that I have.
Yet, it seems like even though TKD has the largest population of marital artists also has the biggest drop out rate amongst 1st dan black belts as well especially amongst kids. Character building is an on going process at any given time. Testing not only builds character but it can test their character. I've seen people give up during a black belt test before and most likely I will see it again. I have seen people fail a black belt test and drop out because of it. What does that say about their character?
I think a slight misinterpretation of the posters meaning. I know that I certainly can form a reliable judgement of a student of higher grade quite quickly and that is what I feel he meant.
A beginner, however, would be much more problematic. You cannot really judge very accurately how a person will grow in the arts until they've been at it a while (tho' some are clearly not in it for the 'long road' when you first lay eyes on them
Right. I agree that you can't make character judgements for newbies. In the same since you really can't make correct character judgements on long term people. Example, when judging the black belt applicant, do you judge him on his hard work and mental capacity of being able to remember curriculum like a robot? Or do you judge him in a high stress situation where you have several seniors getting on his butt and pushing him to his limits making sure he is strong not to second guess his own answers? And I'm talking about 3 black belts sitting behind a table resting their butts, but up and in his face.
I'm not saying one method is better than the other, I am saying no one has to right to question in a rude way (again my opinoin) another person's testing methods or make off the wall comparisons.
1st Dan means you have a solid understanding of the basics of your art, nothing more or less. Therefore, to me, a two day test involving everything you ever learned is unnecessary and overkill. I could probably tell whether you deserve 1st Dan in 15-20 minutes by watching your form and free sparring and seeing whether your breaking meets certain criteria. I don't need to see you do every form you ever learned, spar 20 people, and do 15 breaks. Not necessary. And after teaching you for 2-3 years to the black belt level, I would hope by that point I know where your mind is.
If your instructor needs two days to figure out whether or not you deserve 1st Dan, maybe you need a new instructor.
Wow compared to y'all, Singapore's grading is considered simple. For geup grades, clubs with more than 250 members can undergo supplementary grading, at their own region, with 2 or 3 examiners coming down. If less than 250, then centralized grading. For Dan grades, we undergo centralized grading by the Singapore Taekwondo Federation, the only recognized organisation governing KKW/WTF TKD in Singapore.
Anyway, the requirements for 1st Dan are as follows:
Taeguek Pal-Jang
Taeguek Il to Chil-Jang (1 pattern)
360 turning kick followed by back kick
(2 time each A to B & B to A)
Free (2 round with the same grade and 1 round with a 1st Dan blackbelt)
Anyway, the requirements for 1st Dan are as follows:
Taeguek Pal-Jang
Taeguek Il to Chil-Jang (1 pattern)
(2 time each A to B & B to A)
Free (2 round with the same grade and 1 round with a 1st Dan blackbelt)
bah sorry for triple post, but i think i should put it nicely in one post instead -.-
Anyway, the requirements for 1st Dan are as follows:
Poomsae
Taeguek Pal-Jang
Taeguek Il to Chil-Jang (1 random poomsae, examiner picks)
*if I'm not wrong, the poomsae are supposed to be performed at a standard of score 7.0 or above [as in poomsae competition scoring system] in order to pass, although scores are not actually calculated like in poomsae competitions.
Technique Demonstration
360 turning kick followed by back thrust (2 times each A to B & B to A)
Kyeorugi
Free (1 round each with 2 1st Geups and 1 round with a 1st Dan)
Anyway, the requirements for 1st Dan are as follows:
Poomsae
Taeguek Pal-Jang
Taeguek Il to Chil-Jang (1 random poomsae, examiner picks)
*if I'm not wrong, the poomsae are supposed to be performed at a standard of score 7.0 or above [as in poomsae competition scoring system] in order to pass, although scores are not actually calculated like in poomsae competitions.
Technique Demonstration
360 turning kick followed by back thrust (2 times each A to B & B to A)
Kyeorugi
Free (1 round each with 2 1st Geups and 1 round with a 1st Dan)
miguksaram
Master of Arts
So you are saying people like myself and Terryl should find new instructors because ours choose to push us not only physically but mentally for our black belts. Hmmmm....interesting.
So tell me, why even bother testing at all? Why do you need only 15-20 minutes. Couldn't you tell within the 2-3 years that you have been training them if they deserve the black belt or not? Or is the testing more for you than them so you get a chance to sit behind a desk with all the other big shots looking important?
Play nicely, gentlemen.
Sniping at each other, no matter how well phrased the language, is outside the parameters of the agreement you signed up to when you joined.
By all means feel free to strongly disagree with each others points of view on the issue but constrain the responses to discussing the subject rather than imbedding barbs in each other.
Sniping at each other, no matter how well phrased the language, is outside the parameters of the agreement you signed up to when you joined.
By all means feel free to strongly disagree with each others points of view on the issue but constrain the responses to discussing the subject rather than imbedding barbs in each other.
CDKJudoka
Purple Belt
Osu!! Well said.
I agree with you regarding what a first dan means. And with a KKW first dan consisting of nothing but KKW material, I think a couple of hours is sufficient. Having said that, some schools have a more comprehensive curriculum.
Again, I agree with you. For the most part, an instructor does know this. But what if the instructor isn't the one testing the student, but some GM who flies in from, say, Oakland California who does all testings and has never seen the student before?
I would agree, except that in most tests, the instructor isn't actually trying to figure it out; they already know if the student is ready, other wise the student wouldn't be testing. Often the test is also a lesson in and of itself, to prove something not to the instructor, but to the student taking the test. Perhaps to prove to the student that they really can withstand a level of rigor that they have never been subjected to.
Daniel
miguksaram
Master of Arts
I'm not taking jabs. My question was one that I am seriously asking. Why bother with a test if it can be determine in 20 minutes or less if the person testing is black belt material or not. Who is the test for? The guy testing or the people testing them?
If I was going to make a jab it would be more along the line of "You mean to tell me it takes you less time to test someone for a black belt than it does to order a pizza?"
Every organization, whether KKW, ITF, ATA etc., has certain criteria of what someone testing for 1st Dan should meet. Either you meet those criteria or you do not. Either you have good stances, balance, accuracy, stopping power, and speed, or you do not. I do not need to see you do every form you ever learned to tell this. The final forms are sufficient. I do not need to see you spar 30 people until you drop to determine if your ability is worthy of 1st Dan. Sparring several people will tell me the same thing. Same with breaking. 2-3 well placed breaks will tell me if your speed, accuracy, stopping power etc. is adequate. Now, if there are only a few people testing, I may want to see more because I have more time. But essentially, any legitimate Master or GM should be able to tell within 20 minutes whether a 1st Dan candidate is ready.
I am reminded of the quote by Albert Einstein who, when told that 100 scientists had signed a petition stating he was wrong, replied, "Why 100? If I'm wrong 1 will do."
I am reminded of the quote by Albert Einstein who, when told that 100 scientists had signed a petition stating he was wrong, replied, "Why 100? If I'm wrong 1 will do."
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Right you have already said this. Why not answer my question about why can't you just give him/her the belt without the testing if you already know that they have earned it. Why waste the 20 minutes?
