Young Guy Do, Old Guy Do.

[Bill Mattocks]

Once heard of an older Okinawan master demonstrating a sai technique. He held the sai a particular way and was asked by a student why he held it that way. The student had seen the same technique applied a slightly different way. The master nodded and demonstrated the technique both ways, indicating that either worked just fine. He replied "Young guy do, old guy do." Meaning that one method was taught more in older times, and many older students still did it that way, and now it was often taught with a slightly different grip, and younger students often did it that way, and both worked.

I have seen stances that differed slightly between students of the same art. Both stances were quite stable, both worked fine for generating power. Young guy do, old guy do.

I saw a very tiny detail in a foot during a kata demonstration, a slight lift to the edge of the foot. I asked if it was intentional. It was. I asked why. Smile. Young guy do, old guy do. I wasn't satisfied with that and practiced until it started to work for me better with the blade edge of the foot slightly lifted, and worked on it more until I thought I understood why it was better. Young guy do, old guy do.

Sometimes, details matter. Sometimes they do not. Sometimes the student has to figure out what old guy knows that young guy does not. And that is actually the point of the lesson sometimes. Only those who care to dig will find solutions. For others, young guy do, old guy do is enough of a reason to stop looking.

 

[dvcochran]

Once heard of an older Okinawan master demonstrating a sai technique. He held the sai a particular way and was asked by a student why he held it that way. The student had seen the same technique applied a slightly different way. The master nodded and demonstrated the technique both ways, indicating that either worked just fine. He replied "Young guy do, old guy do." Meaning that one method was taught more in older times, and many older students still did it that way, and now it was often taught with a slightly different grip, and younger students often did it that way, and both worked.

I have seen stances that differed slightly between students of the same art. Both stances were quite stable, both worked fine for generating power. Young guy do, old guy do.

I saw a very tiny detail in a foot during a kata demonstration, a slight lift to the edge of the foot. I asked if it was intentional. It was. I asked why. Smile. Young guy do, old guy do. I wasn't satisfied with that and practiced until it started to work for me better with the blade edge of the foot slightly lifted, and worked on it more until I thought I understood why it was better. Young guy do, old guy do.

Sometimes, details matter. Sometimes they do not. Sometimes the student has to figure out what old guy knows that young guy does not. And that is actually the point of the lesson sometimes. Only those who care to dig will find solutions. For others, young guy do, old guy do is enough of a reason to stop looking.

Great post. It is hard in today's society to get people to learn patience and just work on their craft and absorb what is going on around them. I like the young guy/old guy analogy. I would also add the what works for you/what works for me analogy as well. I have had to adjust some things over the years as my body has went through changes. That said, I can still point to things I do more "correctly" than some younger people do, and vice-versa.

 

[Buka]

All the guys I’m associated with move differently and have different stances. Sometimes young students will ask which of our stances are better. To which I answer “yes”. You know why?

Because young guy do, old guy do.

 

[skribs]

All the guys I’m associated with move differently and have different stances. Sometimes young students will ask which of our stances are better. To which I answer “yes”. You know why?

Because young guy do, old guy do.

I say "mine". Unless the other guy is my Master. Then I say "his".

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Sometimes the student has to figure out what old guy knows that young guy does not.

The old guys always have more patience than the young guys (The un-patience old guys would quit training long time ago). If you tell a young guy that he needs to spend 5 years to develop some skill, he may not want to do it. The old guy will know that 5 years will pass no matter he develops that skill or not.

Young guys like to take short cut. Old guys believe strong building requires strong foundation.

 

[skribs]

The old guys always have more patience than the young guys (The un-patience old guys would quit training long time ago). If you tell a young guy that he needs to spend 5 years to develop some skill, he may not want to do it. The old guy will know that 5 years will pass no matter he develops that skill or not.

Young guys like to take short cut. Old guys believe strong building requires strong foundation.

I always wanted to be good at stuff.

I never wanted to get good at stuff.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I always wanted to be good at stuff.

I never wanted to get good at stuff.

Most people don't want to spend time and go through painful training to obtain certain ability. Some ability just cannot be obtained through "short cut".

 

[punisher73]

It used to be in Okinawa that karate training was done with very few students and the instructor crafted their training to each individual. For example, Chojun Miyagi started all of his students on Sanchin kata and then picked another kata for the student after they had become proficient in that. There were different ways ideas were taught to different students, which also leads to the argument of which student learned the "real art" in many lineage tiffs. They both did based on what the instructor taught them.

Other times, certain personality quirks are passed on in the movements and don't serve a real purpose, which is why it is important to ask questions of "why". Or an instructor has a physical limit/disability that they have made the movement their own, but it wouldn't be the optimal way of doing things if you didn't have the same limit.

As my instructor has said many times, until you have put at least a gallon of sweat into a technique, you shouldn't change/alter it, because it is done on preference and not on the best way for you. "Make it your own, don't make it up on your own" is often heard when lower belts make changes to things with no real reason why other than "they like it".

Young guy do, old guy do...

 

[Dirty Dog]

Other times, certain personality quirks are passed on in the movements and don't serve a real purpose, which is why it is important to ask questions of "why". Or an instructor has a physical limit/disability that they have made the movement their own, but it wouldn't be the optimal way of doing things if you didn't have the same limit.

This is very real. I have one eye. So if I do a right backstance the way you're theoretically supposed to do them, I won't really be able to see my opponent properly. So while my feet are in the proper place, my shoulders will be slightly rotated and my arms will be slightly shifted.
When I demonstrate, I am pretty careful to make sure I do it from a left backstance. Since my remaining eye is on the right side, I can do that one the way a forms judge expects. When circumstances require that I demonstrate both sides, I tell students flat out that I've modified this, and why.

 

[pdg]

Most people don't want to spend time and go through painful training to obtain certain ability. Some ability just cannot be obtained through "short cut".

I agree with the sentiment, but not with the example.

I'm not that young, and I'm not that old.

If you told me it would take X years of hard training to perform a static side hang like that for about 30 seconds, I would seriously question your training methodology.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I agree with the sentiment, but not with the example.

I'm not that young, and I'm not that old.

If you told me it would take X years of hard training to perform a static side hang like that for about 30 seconds, I would seriously question your training methodology.

That clip was done by someone in his "1st month" training. I had a online class and he sent me his training clip. Your goal is 2 minutes, and also be able to do it with only 1 arm..

 

[pdg]

Your goal is 2 minutes, and also be able to do it with only 1 arm..

Is that "your goal" as in what your students work toward or is it actually directed at me?

If directed at me, note that I see very little value in static tension exercises, so I'll only be doing it once. PM me your email and if I can't be bothered to put it on YouTube I'll send you a video. It'll be a few days, maybe a week, until I have access to a suitable tree - all the ones in my garden are either far too small or too big to get an arm around...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Is that "your goal" as in what your students work toward or is it actually directed at me?

When I said, "your goal", I mean "my student's goal".