- Thread Starter
- #21
The form or the test? The form is just a piece of paper and no, it doesn't cost anything for the student to get the form. As for the test, see post 1 and post 12.
You people were right, I should've clarified.
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
- Start date
The form or the test? The form is just a piece of paper and no, it doesn't cost anything for the student to get the form. As for the test, see post 1 and post 12.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Don't need to see post 1 and 12, I asked specifically about the form, Originally you were talking about both and saying there was a charge then the story changed so I was asking for clarification.... thanks
- Thread Starter
- #23
Well the form which is just a piece of paper isn't going to cost anything but it makes sense that a test would cost something. They're taking the time to test you so they have to get paid for it. As for it being a way to generate extra cash, what do you expect when they're putting their time into it? If you charge for lessons, that in and of itself can be seen as a way to generate cash. As for me, I would only want to go to a place that's primary concern isn't making money but rather to teach the art but I would still expect to pay something, for both lessons and promotion tests. The business aspect of the dojo should be secondary but a dojo is still a business. As such, you can expect to pay for lessons and promotion tests. If you teach and you get paid for it than you are generating cash.
In my school I don't test somebody till they are ready. In fact if I look a student and tell them it's time to test them in my mind they've already passed it. That being said I only charge one fee for each test. If for some reason they have to take the same test again I don't charge them again.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Not to me.
Having a school charging for lessons that is all fine, but charging for a test seems like a bit much...but to each his own I guess
I actually give my local students two avenues. They can test with me locally and get one of my homegrown certificates for free, no test fee and no training fees. Or they can join our organization and pay a very small fee and get the organizations certificate. My local guys don't pay for lessons though.
Exactly how we do it. There are no tests. Students just put on a demo to show the other students their progress.
donald1
Senior Master
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I don't know if my instructor charges a second time, he too dosnt test students if he doesn't think they are ready
- Thread Starter
- #29
And why is that? It takes time and skill to administer a test.
what skill dose it take to administer a test. You tell the tester what to do and he/she is able to do it or not.
as for a testing fee, well, in my opinion if you pay for the lessons, school use time, and testing should be included as part of that. You have paid to be trained and graded so why pay again to be graded. Ok the paper the certificate is printed on coasts something and the ink it is signed with coasts something but most of the time these things are printed up in bulk and only a small amount of information is added when you test.
heck if the instructor is not willing to test the student when the student is ready to advance without charging him then the instructor is only a business man not a person who wants to pass on the information they have to deserving people
as for a testing fee, well, in my opinion if you pay for the lessons, school use time, and testing should be included as part of that. You have paid to be trained and graded so why pay again to be graded. Ok the paper the certificate is printed on coasts something and the ink it is signed with coasts something but most of the time these things are printed up in bulk and only a small amount of information is added when you test.
heck if the instructor is not willing to test the student when the student is ready to advance without charging him then the instructor is only a business man not a person who wants to pass on the information they have to deserving people
sorry my last post was off form the OP. In fact many of these posts seem to be. maybe they needed to be in a different thread
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
It is part of your training in a martial art that uses belt rankings, it is not something separate in my mind therefore should not be treated as such.
Can someone go there and train for years, learn new material, get help in advancing and not take a belt test and be treated and trained the same as those who do?
- Thread Starter
- #33
Testing in martial arts isn't like grading a test with a scantron sheet where you just make sure the answers on the sheet line up with the correct answers, it requires good observation and judgement on the tester's part. Being able to pass a belt test is not just being able to do the techniques but also being able to do them well enough, with good form, speed, and power to be able to pass. And also, a test is supposed to measure your performance under pressure. Its one thing to be able to do the techniques well enough during a training exercise, its another thing to do them well enough when you're under the mental anxiety and nervousness that comes with taking a test. So that is why you're not just promoted when you're ready while just putting on a demonstration of what you've learned. You have to do well when it actually counts on a test. And it also takes time to test a student. The higher the belt you're testing for the more time it takes. So that is another reason they charge for it.
- Thread Starter
- #34
Technically yes although I've never seen any student whose just stayed at white belt for years. There are some students who might stop at brown, though, and still keep training and learning more stuff but who do not care to advance in rank any more.
Green belt test for my students has taken up to 8 hours with 12 black belts grilling them on anything from history of my art and others to 100 push ups or sit ups, to doing the same form over and over being asked all sorts of questions on the form. I do not charge for the test
most black belt test do not compare with what I put my green belts through
But I will agree any test takes time and many people feel they should be paid for their time
most black belt test do not compare with what I put my green belts through
But I will agree any test takes time and many people feel they should be paid for their time
This will probably piss off a lot of people, but hey, to each of us our own. When I used to teach full time all students were told at the beginning, "Everyone has to flunk at least once in testing."
I did that as a lesson in patience, as a lesson in picking yourself up and doing it (or anything) again....and because I wanted to.
Much to my chagrin, years later I found out that three of my black belts actually made it to black without having flunked a test. I was astounded. But what happened was - when we had a group testing it was one of the hardest, most intense, looooong training sessions we'd have at any time during the year. So everyone was welcome to participate in the testing - which was pure workout, no teaching. (I do not teach during testing, to me, that's not a time to teach.) So, say somebody earned their green belt, they weren't about to be tested again in six months. But if we had a test in six months, they were welcome to take it for practice and pure nasty workout. The three black belts I mentioned never missed classes, and would never miss a nasty workout. As the years went by my mind saw them on the testing floor and not having a new colored belt as a result. I mistakenly thought they had failed a test somewhere along the line. They never told me for twenty years.
I did that as a lesson in patience, as a lesson in picking yourself up and doing it (or anything) again....and because I wanted to.
Much to my chagrin, years later I found out that three of my black belts actually made it to black without having flunked a test. I was astounded. But what happened was - when we had a group testing it was one of the hardest, most intense, looooong training sessions we'd have at any time during the year. So everyone was welcome to participate in the testing - which was pure workout, no teaching. (I do not teach during testing, to me, that's not a time to teach.) So, say somebody earned their green belt, they weren't about to be tested again in six months. But if we had a test in six months, they were welcome to take it for practice and pure nasty workout. The three black belts I mentioned never missed classes, and would never miss a nasty workout. As the years went by my mind saw them on the testing floor and not having a new colored belt as a result. I mistakenly thought they had failed a test somewhere along the line. They never told me for twenty years.
- Thread Starter
- #37
This will probably piss off a lot of people, but hey, to each of us our own. When I used to teach full time all students were told at the beginning, "Everyone has to flunk at least once in testing."
I did that as a lesson in patience, as a lesson in picking yourself up and doing it (or anything) again....and because I wanted to.
Much to my chagrin, years later I found out that three of my black belts actually made it to black without having flunked a test. I was astounded. But what happened was - when we had a group testing it was one of the hardest, most intense, looooong training sessions we'd have at any time during the year. So everyone was welcome to participate in the testing - which was pure workout, no teaching. (I do not teach during testing, to me, that's not a time to teach.) So, say somebody earned their green belt, they weren't about to be tested again in six months. But if we had a test in six months, they were welcome to take it for practice and pure nasty workout. The three black belts I mentioned never missed classes, and would never miss a nasty workout. As the years went by my mind saw them on the testing floor and not having a new colored belt as a result. I mistakenly thought they had failed a test somewhere along the line. They never told me for twenty years.
As I said, if you have the requirement that a student has to fail a test, that way people might fail on purpose just to fulfill that requirement.
Slower learners or people who lack the confidence to test would fit that criteria IMHO.
Cirdan
Senior Master
Point, but notice he said at least once so there is no qota to "fill". Also trust me when i say a teacher will know you well enough to see when you fail on purpose. Easily.
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