Wtf itf Tkd America

[OldManJim]

I’m completely ignorant of TKD and schools. Can someone explain the differences between all the different federations or whatever they’re called. Isn’t TKD, TKD?

 

[J. Pickard]

TKD is an umbrella term for several systems and styles that were developed in Korea around the early 1950s. The 2 biggest are the ITF and Kukkiwon, with a few others smaller groups and legacy Kwans. TKD was founded by 9 major Kwans (schools) that mostly taught variations of Japanese karate and a few of the schools also taught Judo and had chinese martial arts influence. The 9 Kwans attempted to unify as one united korean striking art but it didn't work out. Some of the Kwans stayed independent while others joined Chang Hon (later called ITF) and some joined the KTA (Later named the Kukkiwon). The 9 kwans still exist but mostly support either Kukkiwon or ITF, depending on which group they are a part of. This is a super simplified explanation, TKD history is rife with politics and drama and if you want to learn more there are many other threads on this site that go into detail.

The biggest difference when generalizing the styles are: ITF was formed by representatives of many of the original 9 kwans but was mostly formed by the Oh do kwan and General Choi. It is closer to it's TSD roots and looks a lot more similar to karate than other systems of TKD. The tournament rules in ITF are usually light contact but allow punches and kicks to any target above the belt. ITF Tends to have deeper stances and more robotic movements through their forms, called Tul, due to many schools in this system adopting what is known as the "sine wave" movement. This type of TKD is usually spelled Taekwon-do. ITF practitioners usually wear an all white dobok that ties in the middle as opposed to a karate gi that ties on the sides. Masters and black belts may have black trim along the lapel and/or sleeves.

Kukkiwon/Kukki TKD is the south Korean national system of taekwondo and was formed with representatives from all 9 of the original kwans. The governing body for the sport of the Kukkiwon system is called World Taekwondo and their rules differ from ITF in that punches are only allowed to the body and the use of chest guards is implemented due to usually being full contact. Kukkiwon tends to have higher stances and a broader curriculum that includes not only the martial art and self-defense aspect of TKD, but also encourages the "tricking" side that is popular for demos that is less common in ITF. kukkiwon tkd is romanized as Taekwondo. Kukkiwon TKD most commonly wear a v-neck dobok, black belts having a black v collar. For forms (poomsae) competition special white y-neck dobok are often worn with different colored pants depending on age and gender. More colorful dobok may be seen frequently during demos.

ATA, formerly Songham TKD, was founded by Haeng Ung Lee who trained during the unification efforts in the 1950s. This system teaches the same self defense aspects that other styles of TKD teach but also has a large curriculum focused around freestyle/tricking and weapons for sport. ATA over the years has become known primarily as a business model for TKD schools to become more profitable while teaching their system. There is a stigma surrounding this specific association due to a lack of quality control and schools being driven by profit over anything else. ATA dobok are usually the japanese style that ties on the sides but are often black, red, or white, with the lapel colored a different color.

Then there are the legacy kwans. While the kwans mostly support either Kukkiwon, ITF, or both, it isn't too uncommon to see some kwans that still run what I call "legacy programs" where they call what they are teaching Tae Kwon Do, but still incorporate much of the old Tang soo do training from the late 1940s that their kwan started with. This includes teaching the old karate hyung and wearing the older all white wrap around dobok.

This is just a very very short explanation that leaves a lot out and does a lot of generalizing but I hope it helps a little at least.

 

[OldManJim]

TKD is an umbrella term for several systems and styles that were developed in Korea around the early 1950s. The 2 biggest are the ITF and Kukkiwon, with a few others smaller groups and legacy Kwans. TKD was founded by 9 major Kwans (schools) that mostly taught variations of Japanese karate and a few of the schools also taught Judo and had chinese martial arts influence. The 9 Kwans attempted to unify as one united korean striking art but it didn't work out. Some of the Kwans stayed independent while others joined Chang Hon (later called ITF) and some joined the KTA (Later named the Kukkiwon). The 9 kwans still exist but mostly support either Kukkiwon or ITF, depending on which group they are a part of. This is a super simplified explanation, TKD history is rife with politics and drama and if you want to learn more there are many other threads on this site that go into detail.

The biggest difference when generalizing the styles are: ITF was formed by representatives of many of the original 9 kwans but was mostly formed by the Oh do kwan and General Choi. It is closer to it's TSD roots and looks a lot more similar to karate than other systems of TKD. The tournament rules in ITF are usually light contact but allow punches and kicks to any target above the belt. ITF Tends to have deeper stances and more robotic movements through their forms, called Tul, due to many schools in this system adopting what is known as the "sine wave" movement. This type of TKD is usually spelled Taekwon-do. ITF practitioners usually wear an all white dobok that ties in the middle as opposed to a karate gi that ties on the sides. Masters and black belts may have black trim along the lapel and/or sleeves.

Kukkiwon/Kukki TKD is the south Korean national system of taekwondo and was formed with representatives from all 9 of the original kwans. The governing body for the sport of the Kukkiwon system is called World Taekwondo and their rules differ from ITF in that punches are only allowed to the body and the use of chest guards is implemented due to usually being full contact. Kukkiwon tends to have higher stances and a broader curriculum that includes not only the martial art and self-defense aspect of TKD, but also encourages the "tricking" side that is popular for demos that is less common in ITF. kukkiwon tkd is romanized as Taekwondo. Kukkiwon TKD most commonly wear a v-neck dobok, black belts having a black v collar. For forms (poomsae) competition special white y-neck dobok are often worn with different colored pants depending on age and gender. More colorful dobok may be seen frequently during demos.

ATA, formerly Songham TKD, was founded by Haeng Ung Lee who trained during the unification efforts in the 1950s. This system teaches the same self defense aspects that other styles of TKD teach but also has a large curriculum focused around freestyle/tricking and weapons for sport. ATA over the years has become known primarily as a business model for TKD schools to become more profitable while teaching their system. There is a stigma surrounding this specific association due to a lack of quality control and schools being driven by profit over anything else. ATA dobok are usually the japanese style that ties on the sides but are often black, red, or white, with the lapel colored a different color.

Then there are the legacy kwans. While the kwans mostly support either Kukkiwon, ITF, or both, it isn't too uncommon to see some kwans that still run what I call "legacy programs" where they call what they are teaching Tae Kwon Do, but still incorporate much of the old Tang soo do training from the late 1940s that their kwan started with. This includes teaching the old karate hyung and wearing the older all white wrap around dobok.

This is just a very very short explanation that leaves a lot out and does a lot of generalizing but I hope it helps a little at least.

Wow. That’s very informative and explanatory of the different aspects. Thank you for answering thoroughly. Which does Taekwondo America fall under? ATA?

 

[J. Pickard]

Wow. That’s very informative and explanatory of the different aspects. Thank you for answering thoroughly. Which does Taekwondo America fall under? ATA?

No. TA is an independant franchise association. They do their own thing. They focus a lot on the sport but only within their own specific organization and discourage open or international competition. I have minimal experience with them due to the fact that they are very closed off and dont do things outside of their association. I believe they were once ITF given that they do a lot of the ITF tul.

 

[isshinryuronin]

They focus a lot on the sport but only within their own specific organization and discourage open or international competition.

Do you think this is to maintain strict control of their assoc., or that they don't want their members to see how they compare to others? Either way they're putting the association's interests over their students.

 

[J. Pickard]

Do you think this is to maintain strict control of their assoc., or that they don't want their members to see how they compare to others? Either way they're putting the association's interests over their students.

Probably a little of both.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I’m completely ignorant of TKD and schools. Can someone explain the differences between all the different federations or whatever they’re called. Isn’t TKD, TKD?

No more so than karate is karate. Different groups have a different focus, and there are differences in specific techniques.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I’m completely ignorant of TKD and schools. Can someone explain the differences between all the different federations or whatever they’re called. Isn’t TKD, TKD?

"TKD is an umbrella term for several systems and styles "

For a different perspective. TK-D was a term accepted in 1955 in order to label a new Korean system. One person well connected politically with resources available submitted the name for acceptance, codified the new system (with assistance from experienced martial artists) He had the system taught, developed instructors, dispatched demonstrators and instructors to various countries, recruited instructors in other countries to teach the system Having this single system that could be taught and learned on a wide scale was not unlike what had been done with Judo, Shotokan Karate, And Aikido. The plan worked phenomenally well spreading TK-D throughout the world. Some resisted the new name but later, due to it's success began using the name without changing their system.
After about 20 years the political connections dissolved and the Korean Government wanted to take over the art / system.

The individual left Korea and the government using it's resources Co Opted the name, developed and codified the new system developed and recruited instructors etc. However, they were smart in taking the long view initially accepting all sorts of systems under their Umbrella and later requiring a single system.

I recommend "A Killing Art" for more details.

 

[HighKick]

Wow. That’s very informative and explanatory of the different aspects. Thank you for answering thoroughly. Which does Taekwondo America fall under? ATA?

TA is largely in the South/Southeast US and a few schools in Indiana. It is what is commonly called a 'system' or 'organization'. It is completely closed circuit, and does not interact with any other entity in any official sense. For comparison, I would liken it closer to ATA with a more 'for profit' structure. Not automatically a bad thing. It all comes down to the teaching.

I will occasionally see a TA patch at an open tournament in the southeast. But I have no direct experience with the system

 

[skribs]

Take any sport, and you'll have different versions of the sport that each have their own rules, and different teams within the division that do things differently. The same is true of TKD.

I do believe that at it's core, there are some things all TKD schools have in common:

• They all have some sort of form which is used for belt testing.
• They all have a wide breadth of kicks that are taught.
• They all have board breaking for belt testing.

Other than that, they may go into self-defense or they may not, self-defense may be done in a variety of ways, sparring may have different rules, etc.

 

[HighKick]

No. TA is an independant franchise association. They do their own thing. They focus a lot on the sport but only within their own specific organization and discourage open or international competition. I have minimal experience with them due to the fact that they are very closed off and dont do things outside of their association. I believe they were once ITF given that they do a lot of the ITF tul.

They are a fracture of ATA.

 

[Chris Freeman]

They are a fracture of ATA.

ATA recently fractured again, with GM G.K. Lee splintering off and forming GTMA. Taekwondo has really goofy politics.

 

[HighKick]

ATA recently fractured again, with GM G.K. Lee splintering off and forming GTMA. Taekwondo has really goofy politics.

Yes. Yes it does. All martials are the same way.
When you look at it as a business entity, people start doing what is 'best' for profit or identity, not the the art.