WTF clubs that credits General Choi as founder and/or developer of TaeKwonDo

[Gnarlie]

Wait A second, " you just wrote that TKD has a reverse knife hand strike... That is exactly the same trajectory path as ridge hand... Only difference being fingers slightly bent and thumb not tucked in???
So the motion is Not always different for a knife hand

It's the other side of the hand with different targets and multiple different possible paths, some of which are physically impossible with knife hand e.g. groin strike forwards.

Palm heel strike uses a flat hand, are you going to call that alternative knife hand too? What about a slap?

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[Axiom]

It's the other side of the hand with different targets and multiple different possible paths, some of which are physically impossible with knife hand e.g. groin strike forwards.

Palm heel strike uses a flat hand, are you going to call that alternative knife hand too? What about a slap?

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The dude below hits with the same point of impact as in the black and White clip we discussed, using the same motion. How is the striking surface different??

 

[Tez3]

What about a slap?

Are you offering one? He certainly deserves a slap.

 

[Gnarlie]

The dude below hits with the same point of impact as in the black and White clip we discussed, using the same motion. How is the striking surface different??

It is the other side of the hand you muppet.

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[Axiom]

It is the other side of the hand you muppet.

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Thats my point. And you still label it knife hand so the part of the hand is irrelevant to whether its a knife hand

 

[Gnarlie]

Thats my point. And you still label it knife hand so the part of the hand is irrelevant to whether its a knife hand

It is a poor translation. The names mean 'knife hand' and 'knife hand back side'. The technique for using those respective surfaces is different, their targets are different, and their paths are different. The name is incidental as the true name is Korean and cannot be directly and accurately translated. They are similar in hand form, but not in other ways. The finger positioning is important for each, but there's no reason for a 9th dan to teach you this as sonnal deung does not appear in the colour belt form syllabus. So, he's right, all knife hand techniques in your form syllabus so far are bent fingers. Accept it and move on. You'll learn this technique soon.

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[RTKDCMB]

So you don't think the instep compared to ball of the foot is equally an entirely different part of the foot as the different striking surface between a ridge hand and knifehand?

Apples and oranges. A knife hand and reverse knife hand strike travel in opposite directions and have entirely different body mechanics whereas the turning kick with the instep and ball of the foot travel in the same direction and have virtually the same body mechanics..

 

[Dirty Dog]

Thats my point. And you still label it knife hand so the part of the hand is irrelevant to whether its a knife hand

Hey look, he's doing a knifehand!
Since the contact point and actual striking technique are irrelevant, according to you...

 

[Axiom]

I can strike soft parts of the body such as the kneck with an "incorrect" knife hand strike configuration - fingers straight.. and they won't break. Or I can throw a ridge strike where fingers are meant to be straight. It doesn't matter which way the motion goes or which side of the hand I strike with. Fingers won't break either way.

 

[Axiom]

,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nor is a vertical vs horizontal turning kick with different parts of the foot as point of impacts. We call them both turning kick, or in "american terms" roundhouse kicks.

Roundhouse kicks all use the same striking surface - at least all the roundhouse kicks I know. A spinning back kick is as unrelated as that ridge-hand.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So you don't think the instep compared to ball of the foot is equally an entirely different part of the foot as the different striking surface between a ridge hand and knifehand?

Really?

Yes, it is equally different. And the toe position for one is as equally unrelated as the finger position in question.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Roundhouse kicks all use the same striking surface - at least all the roundhouse kicks I know. A spinning back kick is as unrelated as that ridge-hand.

Roundhouse kicks can hit with the shin, the instep, the ball of the foot, or the point of the toe*, depending on the art and the specific variation. The change in striking surface can require some adjustments to the body dynamics, but it's still a roundhouse kick.

*(There's at least one karate style which conditions the feet so that you can do this barefoot, but I have no desire to try that. I only use the point of the toe when kicking with shoes, Savate style.)

 

[Dirty Dog]

Roundhouse kicks all use the same striking surface - at least all the roundhouse kicks I know. A spinning back kick is as unrelated as that ridge-hand.

Not really. We teach the roundhouse striking with the instep, the shin, or the ball of the foot. We consider the instep as primarily a sparring kick, when your goal isn't to break anything. The shin and ball of the foot versions are for breaking, whether that means boards or ribs.

Now, the body mechanics for the kick are the same regardless of which surface strikes, unlike the knifehand vs ridgehand vs spearhand nonsense.

And of course, the various hook kicks are completely different to a roundhouse kick.

 

[Axiom]

Not really. We teach the roundhouse striking with the instep, the shin, or the ball of the foot. We consider the instep as primarily a sparring kick, when your goal isn't to break anything. The shin and ball of the foot versions are for breaking, whether that means boards or ribs.

Now, the body mechanics for the kick are the same regardless of which surface strikes, unlike the knifehand vs ridgehand vs spearhand nonsense.

And of course, the various hook kicks are completely different to a roundhouse kick.

In Your school. In others they teach for the instep technique to chamber as a front kick before pivoting, unlike for the ball of the foot variation in which the chambering is semicircular.

 

[Axiom]

You guys did not concider reverse knife hand strike to be a knife hand technique.. Well guess what, I do and have always done, and completely agree with the English translation.

I blanked on the proper term and kept labelling it alternative knife hand for some bizarre reason.

 

[Gnarlie]

In Your school. In others they teach for the instep technique to chamber as a front kick before pivoting, unlike for the ball of the foot variation in which the chambering is semicircular.

Not necessarily. There are ball of the foot variants with the front kick chamber. But still, these kicks have largely similar dynamics and directions, which the knife hand and ridge hand do not.

The slightly different striking angle when using ridge hand means the fingers do not need to be bent as they are already slightly offset from the angle of the strike. This is not the case with knife hand.

This might not be an issue with a soft target, but with hard targets for which these techniques are also suited, such as the temple, the finger positioning becomes important in reducing the risk of injury to the striker.

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[Axiom]

Not necessarily. There are ball of the foot variants with the front kick chamber.

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Even so, there is a semi circular chambering for the ball of the foot in the Kukkiwon textbook.

 

[Gnarlie]

Even so, there is a semi circular chambering for the ball of the foot in the Kukkiwon textbook.

There's also linear chambering for ball of the foot. See dollyo chagi in Taegeuk Yuk Jang for example.

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[Gerry Seymour]

Roundhouse kicks can hit with the shin, the instep, the ball of the foot, or the point of the toe*, depending on the art and the specific variation. The change in striking surface can require some adjustments to the body dynamics, but it's still a roundhouse kick.

*(There's at least one karate style which conditions the feet so that you can do this barefoot, but I have no desire to try that. I only use the point of the toe when kicking with shoes, Savate style.)

Okay, instep/shin is a fairly minor variation to me. The ball of the foot we have a different name for (rib kick), so I wasn't counting that one. And toe of the foot I'd not seen - that's a new one for me. Seems there's some difference in terminology from what I'm used to.