Would You Force Your Child to Study Karate?

[dancingalone]

Just a stray thought as I have a three year old at home. I'd like for him to study a martial art when he gets older to gain some of the obvious advantages from the activity. But should I force him to study it if he doesn't want to?

My sensei by his own words did with his sons. Of the three, two are still active in karate, but I gather there was some friction along the way with at least 1 of them.

As a father of an only child, I try to strike a balance between being too strict and being too permissive. I only want the best for my son.

 

[JWLuiza]

I would want my children to love the martial arts, but I also would want them to follow their own passions. My dad pushed baseball, but it ended up just not being something I liked, but I'm sure he wished I had stuck with it.

Also, kids who start way early tend to stop in their teens. My friends with kids try to hold off as long as possible before letting their children start.

 

[Omar B]

Force, really? No.

To force a man to drop his own mind and to accept your will as a substitute, with a gun in place of a syllogism, with terror in place of proof, and death as the final argument—is to attempt to exist in defiance of reality. Reality demands of man that he act for his own rational interest; your gun demands of him that he act against it. Reality threatens man with death if he does not act on his rational judgment; you threaten him with death if he does. You place him in a world where the price of his life is the surrender of all the virtues required by life—and death by a process of gradual destruction is all that you and your system will achieve, when death is made to be the ruling power, the winning argument in a society of men. - Ayn Rand

 

[dancingalone]

Well, the scenario I pose is what I have a 14 year old at home who plays video games for almost all of his free time. He might be a bit pudgy and awkward in his own body. He might have seen little adversity in his brief life since Mom and Dad do everything for him.

Do you drag this guy to class with you? Do you make him train out in the back yard with you when you're going through your forms? Do you push him through the difficult times, perhaps even to the point of tears?

You see, I have a feeling my sensei did all those things and probably a lot more with his kids back in the seventies. They seem to be better for the experience. Can I do the same in our post-Dr. Spock parental reality today. Maybe more importantly, should I want to?

 

[CoryKS]

It's about how you present it to him. If it's something that you really believe that he needs to do, then don't present it as an optional activity. Young children are pretty good about accepting things on authority. Where you run into problems is when you offer it to him as a choice and then lean on him to do it when he says no. Rather than trying to coerce him to volunteer, give him a matter-of-fact "Time for class, go get your uniform on." Basically, treat it like school - sure, most kids would rather not go but once they accept that they have to do it no matter what, they don't fight it. Not as much, anyway.

If it's just something that you would like him to do but don't think it's required, give him the option and be prepared to accept "no" as an answer.

 

[dancingalone]

Force, really? No.

To force a man to drop his own mind and to accept your will as a substitute, with a gun in place of a syllogism, with terror in place of proof, and death as the final argument—is to attempt to exist in defiance of reality. Reality demands of man that he act for his own rational interest; your gun demands of him that he act against it. Reality threatens man with death if he does not act on his rational judgment; you threaten him with death if he does. You place him in a world where the price of his life is the surrender of all the virtues required by life—and death by a process of gradual destruction is all that you and your system will achieve, when death is made to be the ruling power, the winning argument in a society of men. - Ayn Rand

Hmm. Does this apply to a minor in living under your roof, supported financially by you?

 

[CoryKS]

Well, the scenario I pose is what I have a 14 year old at home who plays video games for almost all of his free time. He might be a bit pudgy and awkward in his own body. He might have seen little adversity in his brief life since Mom and Dad do everything for him.

Do you drag this guy to class with you? Do you make him train out in the back yard with you when you're going through your forms? Do you push him through the difficult times, perhaps even to the point of tears?

You see, I have a feeling my sensei did all those things and probably a lot more with his kids back in the seventies. They seem to be better for the experience. Can I do the same in our post-Dr. Spock parental reality today. Maybe more importantly, should I want to?

Fourteen is too old to make a kid do an activity he doesn't want to do. His heart won't be in it and he won't gain anything from it. With a smaller child you're not really applying force, just presenting it as something that is done.

 

[Blade96]

Would You Force Your Child to Study Karate?

No. I've not a child, but I've niece. As much as I would like her to study Shotokan when she gets older, (she's only 2 months old!) I firmly believe MA is something that has to come from the heart. something you do because you want to. not because anyone else wants you to.

I talked about that with my sensei/friend (well we are friends) He said he put his 2 daughters and son into it when they were young but they never stayed there. They didnt like it. Its just understood that a lifestyle has to be this because YOU want it to be. and not at the will of someone else. Unfortunately too many people still believe in this.

 

[Omar B]

Hmm. Does this apply to a minor in living under your roof, supported financially by you?

Yeah, force is force man. But as stated by other posters, if dad says do something, they should do it, it's not force. We all had chores growing up and knew what was required of us. Force on the other had points to someone acting against their own rational judgment of what is right because someone else is doing the pushing.

If you were to remove the word "force" and just say that it's something that's required when you live under my roof it's different. Because having a home is in the child's interest.

 

[dancingalone]

I firmly believe MA is something that has to come from the heart. something you do because you want to. not because anyone else wants you to.

I'll place Devil's Advocate. Surely no one would argue that you shouldn't make your child do his homework, right? Being literate and having a functional understanding of math and science is valuable. So then, why is there more of a choice given to the child when it comes to a physical activity like karate? The strong body and self-defense skills he learns through it are as valuable as the mental growth he receives from schooling.

 

[JWLuiza]

Well, the scenario I pose is what I have a 14 year old at home who plays video games for almost all of his free time. He might be a bit pudgy and awkward in his own body. He might have seen little adversity in his brief life since Mom and Dad do everything for him.

Do you drag this guy to class with you? Do you make him train out in the back yard with you when you're going through your forms? Do you push him through the difficult times, perhaps even to the point of tears?

You see, I have a feeling my sensei did all those things and probably a lot more with his kids back in the seventies. They seem to be better for the experience. Can I do the same in our post-Dr. Spock parental reality today. Maybe more importantly, should I want to?

You don't have a comparison to hold them to, so you don't really know if they are better.

If you're a good enough parent, the scenario above probably won't happen. And if you aren't the kids parent, you can't force it.

 

[JWLuiza]

I'll place Devil's Advocate. Surely no one would argue that you shouldn't make your child do his homework, right? Being literate and having a functional understanding of math and science is valuable. So then, why is there more of a choice given to the child when it comes to a physical activity like karate? The strong body and self-defense skills he learns through it are as valuable as the mental growth he receives from schooling.

Sure, you can require you kid to do activity, but what's your goal? That they do the activity or that you share in an experience that you value. It's all in the approach.

Lead by example and this won't come up.

 

[dancingalone]

You don't have a comparison to hold them to, so you don't really know if they are better.

If you're a good enough parent, the scenario above probably won't happen. And if you aren't the kids parent, you can't force it.

My sensei's sons are better in the sense that they are all fit men, even in their late forties. Their karate is quite good too.

Do they have that without him forcing them to study when they were younger? Maybe not. The point is can only act under the best information that we have at the time. My teacher thought his sons would benefit from the study, so he made them do it.

 

[chaos1551]

When it comes to children, it's relative. Should you force a child to learn manners? Be respectful? Well.. sure. I will force all my children to learn life-important skills. If we lived in 1000 A.D Japan and I knew martial arts, yes I would force my children to learn. Since martial arts are not life-important skills nowadays (meaning that without them no one would have a good life) then I will not be forcing them to learn. The air of freedom has allowed an interest in my martial art to form in my children. My 3-year-old loves to do warm-ups, get into the horse pose with me and do a few punches. My 11-year-old has shown an interest in how to punch effectively (for reasons I hope will become apparent). Even my older kids seem to be taking on a higher level of confidence when I answer simple questions they pose about fighting. Being all girls, I'm glad my kids show an interest that I doubt they would have if I'd used force.

 

[Blade96]

I'll place Devil's Advocate. Surely no one would argue that you shouldn't make your child do his homework, right? Being literate and having a functional understanding of math and science is valuable. So then, why is there more of a choice given to the child when it comes to a physical activity like karate? The strong body and self-defense skills he learns through it are as valuable as the mental growth he receives from schooling.

Ok, Devil's Advocate

I really dont know why school is compulsary and physical activity isnt. I agree, its good (the physical activity) and all people should do SOMETHING, even kids.

But I'd like to point out that kids also dont have to be in school if they dont want to (here the age is 16 i think) when they reach a certain age

But i was in that situation. Until 2008 I was just like the hypothetical 14 year old you described. well i was active in my childhood and teens but lost that when i was in my 20's. (didnt help that my parents believed i wouldnt really succeed in anything physical anyways.) But in september 2008 I took up ice skating. Then next september (2009) I started Shotokan. I still ice skate.

Things like just watching an exercize video and bending, just going for walks, etc, doing jumping jacks, didnt appeal to me. What did was playing sports and and as I am an NHL fan, learning to skate I could relate to. and MA - getting interested in an actor who was a MA (his character is Blade thats why my forum name is Blade) and made me want to learn the art and live a physical way of life thats also spiritual that means something. and since skating really is something you have to start as a child if you wanna make something of yourself in, and I never did, I knew I wouldnt succeed in skating. I wanted something I knew I would be good at and succeed in.

Maybe karate wont appeal to your young child. but something else physical will.

I dont know. I had to think before typing. I really dont know what to say. Except my parents had me in all kinds of stuff when I was a kid and they told me I fought them tooth and nail. I just never had an appreciation for it (most kids wouldnt) Thats another reason why I believe kids should be older when they do stuff. They'll understand it more.

 

[blindsage]

If you want a younger child to train in order to gain the benefits of doing so from a young age, then absolutely yes, you should require it. It can only benefit them in the long run, if they don't want to do it when they are older (late teens or so), that's fine, they still gained the benefit from it.

If it's a somewhat older child (like the 14 year old you've mentioned), you can make him go, but you need to be prepared for a more difficult situation. He probably won't like the idea (at least to start), and will put up resistance, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't go. The parent should probably sit down and have a well thought out, and very measured conversation with him about what WILL be happening in terms of him starting to train. Maybe they give him a choice of training at the school, or with them personally, maybe not depending on his personality. But either way, if as a parent, they think it's in his best interests, then IMHO, they have an obligation to do it.

My wife and I don't have children yet, but we do plan on requiring all of our children to train from a young age. It doesn't always have to be in exactly what we train in, but it will have to be in some style and at least until they are in their late teens.

 

[JWLuiza]

If you want a younger child to train in order to gain the benefits of doing so from a young age, then absolutely yes, you should require it. It can only benefit them in the long run, if they don't want to do it when they are older (late teens or so), that's fine, they still gained the benefit from it.

If it's a somewhat older child (like the 14 year old you've mentioned), you can make him go, but you need to be prepared for a more difficult situation. He probably won't like the idea (at least to start), and will put up resistance, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't go. The parent should probably sit down and have a well thought out, and very measured conversation with him about what WILL be happening in terms of him starting to train. Maybe they give him a choice of training at the school, or with them personally, maybe not depending on his personality. But either way, if as a parent, they think it's in his best interests, then IMHO, they have an obligation to do it.

My wife and I don't have children yet, but we do plan on requiring all of our children to train from a young age. It doesn't always have to be in exactly what we train in, but it will have to be in some style and at least until they are in their late teens.

Would it have to be a MA? What if your kid found a passion for soccer and wanted to be on a travel team as a 10-11 yo? Let's say they wanted to be olympic or college scholarship level....
I use this as an example of a highly time intensive but great goal for a child to have that may preclude more than superficial MA practice. I went the other way... Quit volleyball to pursue MA.
(I guess that's what Sunday morning drills with Pop is for! )

 

[JWLuiza]

I have the feeling if you are a parent posting on here, you spend so much time thinking/talking/doing MA, that while you may "require" your kids to train, it'll just be something that happens. Kids love spending time with parents (at a young age).

 

[kaizasosei]

I guess there are various degrees and types of force. Generally though, i would think that it is not best to force anything on anyone.
Actually there is a fair bit of force happening with parent/child relationship automatically and i believe that should be a positive guiding force.
Not a force that tells the other to 'do whatever i want'.

As a child my dad sortof pushed us to go skiing practically every weekend and much of the holidays. My sis and i were often challenged by the extremity of it all and the cold seemed to affect our little bodies more- we were out there all day whilst other families were having hot chocolate in the cafeterias.

In retrospect i think it was a somewhat pushy of my dad, but very valuable for us too to get out into the nature and learn how to ski well. Now i appreciate it and i basically look for any opportunity to head into the mountains.

Still it is not my style to be pushy and i think there are always ways of influencing and convincing that use less selfish brute force and solliciting. Sometimes it may take years, but pushing people often only makes them more against something.


j

 

[Touch Of Death]

Force, really? No.

To force a man to drop his own mind and to accept your will as a substitute, with a gun in place of a syllogism, with terror in place of proof, and death as the final argument—is to attempt to exist in defiance of reality. Reality demands of man that he act for his own rational interest; your gun demands of him that he act against it. Reality threatens man with death if he does not act on his rational judgment; you threaten him with death if he does. You place him in a world where the price of his life is the surrender of all the virtues required by life—and death by a process of gradual destruction is all that you and your system will achieve, when death is made to be the ruling power, the winning argument in a society of men. - Ayn Rand

We force children to learn how to read, why is self defense an option. What is next, optional table manners?
Sean