would you do this??

[lonekimono10]

http://www.nbc10.com/news/4855860/detail.html

check this out, in all my years i of teaching i never would think of doing this

 

[ppko]

No I would never do that, if the children are that unruly than they are not ready to train or she has not done her job in showing them respect from day one.

 

[MJS]

This instructor apparently has some serious issues! She should not even call herself a Martial Artist. Its bad enough there are fakes in the arts, without having people abuse kids like that.

 

[lonekimono10]

Hey mike her dojo is not that far away from me, it's in Delaware

 

[MJS]

Hey mike her dojo is not that far away from me, it's in Delaware

And if we're lucky it won't be there much longer. It would be kind of hard to teach from jail, which is where she needs to be.

 

[ppko]

I propose a move to horror stories.

 

[MJS]

Mod Note

Thread moved to Horror Stories

MJS
MT MOD

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Wow. I read this thread and thought the instructor had beat the daylights out of the kids. This was how the reactions "sounded" if there is such a thing on the forums. Then I read it was the old "tape accross the mouth" routine. Yeah we do that all the time here. What's the problem?

OK, now that the comedy is over with. LOL. That is definitely strange. I'm not sure I would classify that as abuse but definitely there must be better ways. I remember in grade school the teachers had permission from the parents to use masking tape on the mouths and rulers on the palms to enforce discipline as necessary. Almost no unruly children then. Then one parent complained, they took that 'authority' away and now I've seen multiple incidents of the students abusing the teachers instead. But I must admit I'd rather see my son with duct tape on his mouth than what I've seen in ALOT of martial arts schools. Students act unruly then the instructor "spars" with the students to justify beating the some sense into them. I'll take the tape for my kid over a physical beating from an aggravated adult hiding behind a black belt anyday. Or I'd just as well take neither.

BOTTOM LINE people are saying "hope she's put out of business!" From the way I've seen things done around here (impromptu sparring lessons, sudden weapon defense lessons against rubber sticks that still hurt, instructors suddenly doing techniques with the kids and coincidentally only the unruly ones, etc.) it could have been ALOT worse. The kids could have been physically abused under the guise of martial arts training. Something that the instructor is pretty well protected in doing by that liability waiver most parents signed. After all it is a contact activity right? Food for thought. From my experience the tape is still WRONG, but it's tame by comparison to what I've seen and continue to see. And some of the reactions are a little extreme as I'm sure I'm not the only one who's seen what I've mentioned and I know it's not isolated to the Maryland-Virginia area. Thoughts?

Respectfully,
James

 

[lonekimono10]

I'll take the tape for my kid over a physical beating

Respectfully,
James[/QUOTE] I hear what you say james , but what about the child (bad or not) that when you put that tape over his/her mouth and than they get even more upset because they can't breath,and it's the age thing here also.
there is only one word i know for her " what a momaluke"

 

[MJS]

Wow. I read this thread and thought the instructor had beat the daylights out of the kids. This was how the reactions "sounded" if there is such a thing on the forums. Then I read it was the old "tape accross the mouth" routine. Yeah we do that all the time here. What's the problem?

OK, now that the comedy is over with. LOL. That is definitely strange. I'm not sure I would classify that as abuse but definitely there must be better ways. I remember in grade school the teachers had permission from the parents to use masking tape on the mouths and rulers on the palms to enforce discipline as necessary. Almost no unruly children then. Then one parent complained, they took that 'authority' away and now I've seen multiple incidents of the students abusing the teachers instead. But I must admit I'd rather see my son with duct tape on his mouth than what I've seen in ALOT of martial arts schools. Students act unruly then the instructor "spars" with the students to justify beating the some sense into them. I'll take the tape for my kid over a physical beating from an aggravated adult hiding behind a black belt anyday. Or I'd just as well take neither.

BOTTOM LINE people are saying "hope she's put out of business!" From the way I've seen things done around here (impromptu sparring lessons, sudden weapon defense lessons against rubber sticks that still hurt, instructors suddenly doing techniques with the kids and coincidentally only the unruly ones, etc.) it could have been ALOT worse. The kids could have been physically abused under the guise of martial arts training. Something that the instructor is pretty well protected in doing by that liability waiver most parents signed. After all it is a contact activity right? Food for thought. From my experience the tape is still WRONG, but it's tame by comparison to what I've seen and continue to see. And some of the reactions are a little extreme as I'm sure I'm not the only one who's seen what I've mentioned and I know it's not isolated to the Maryland-Virginia area. Thoughts?

Respectfully,
James

You bring up some good points James. I remember my Mom telling me stories of the teachers back then. I also remember my Grandfather, who is a retired Police Officer, telling me stories of how prisoners would get some "jailhouse discipline" when they were being brought in to be booked. Like you said though, the times have changed. You're correct, abuse is often disguised but regardless it is still wrong. I still think that there is a difference between taping a childs mouth and putting a little juice behind a shot to get a point across in a sparring match. Have I added in some juice? Sure, but not with a child. And I certainly did not use that time during sparring to beat the person to a bloody heap either. Some people just dont get the message...does that mean I should keep hitting them harder and harder? If the student didn't get the message, they were done with sparring for the day. If it continued, they were not allowed to spar. Part of the arts is self control. I'd rather see the child do pushups, sit down for a few, etc., than get tape across their mouth. If someone is that unruly, and its causing that much of a disruption in class, their money is not worth the headaches.

Bottom line: This is 2005, not 1900. The times have changed and people need to be aware of that. Abuse and the like, is not tolerated like it was back in the day. That being said, this instructor needs to catch up with the times.

Mike

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I'll take the tape for my kid over a physical beating

Respectfully,
James

I hear what you say james , but what about the child (bad or not) that when you put that tape over his/her mouth and than they get even more upset because they can't breath,and it's the age thing here also.
there is only one word i know for her " what a momaluke"

"Or I'd just as well take neither."

from my previous post.

 

[rutherford]

The kids were 4-6 years old, which means they probably couldn't get the tape off themselves and would have likely started crying immediately.

No, I wouldn't have done it.

 

[DavidCC]

If my daughter was at that school, that woman would have to do some sparring... with me!

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

You bring up some good points James. I remember my Mom telling me stories of the teachers back then. I also remember my Grandfather, who is a retired Police Officer, telling me stories of how prisoners would get some "jailhouse discipline" when they were being brought in to be booked. Like you said though, the times have changed. You're correct, abuse is often disguised but regardless it is still wrong. I still think that there is a difference between taping a childs mouth and putting a little juice behind a shot to get a point across in a sparring match. Have I added in some juice? Sure, but not with a child. And I certainly did not use that time during sparring to beat the person to a bloody heap either. Some people just dont get the message...does that mean I should keep hitting them harder and harder? If the student didn't get the message, they were done with sparring for the day. If it continued, they were not allowed to spar. Part of the arts is self control. I'd rather see the child do pushups, sit down for a few, etc., than get tape across their mouth. If someone is that unruly, and its causing that much of a disruption in class, their money is not worth the headaches.

Bottom line: This is 2005, not 1900. The times have changed and people need to be aware of that. Abuse and the like, is not tolerated like it was back in the day. That being said, this instructor needs to catch up with the times.

Mike

That's my point exactly. I said it was wrong plain and simple in my previous point. But I wanted to bring to light some WORSE things than that one since people were so outraged with a child getting taped and upset. How about a child getting beaten and hurt? That's WORSE than being UPSET but these things aren't mentioned too much if at all. And like you said "adding juice" to get a point across. That's what I'm talking about when I see instructors "sparring" unruly children, adding juice to hit the child to prove a point about something the CHILD did wrong. Just using this story to open discussion on other forms of DOJO ABUSE that people may or may not be aware of. But don't misread, THE TAPE WAS/IS WRONG, IT'S ALSO TAME BY COMPARISON TO WHAT I'VE SEEN HAPPEN ON A FAIRLY REGULAR BASIS WHERE AS THE TAPE IS (hopefully) AN ISOLATED INCIDENT.

P.S. not shouting, just emphasizing key points for the forum "skimmers"

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

If my daughter was at that school, that woman would have to do some sparring... with me!

would this be with pads or are "back alley brawl" rules in effect? LOL

 

[Blindside]

there is only one word i know for her " what a momaluke"

????

Mameluk/Mamluk? Slave soldier of the Ottoman empire? I don't understand the reference.

Lamont

 

[searcher]

This is another black eye for the martial arts. It is insane for anybody to do crazy crap like that, no matter what the reasoning. She needs to be locked up.

 

[lonekimono10]

just to clear something up here it was me who said "what a momaluke " not the other guy
i see that he has a ouote with that saying, but it was me saying it to him about that lady
with the tape.

 

[still learning]

Hello, It is hard to be perfect teacher and perfect student. We do things from what we had learned.

Our past sometimes show up in the present.

I heard crazy glue works better than tape? ....can we get some feedback on this......................Aloha

 

[arnisador]

There has got to be a better way than duct-taping people.