I'm not sure how wide spread the threat is right now, but given we've just threatened to cut funding over a billion in funding, they're more than a little pissed at us. That's all I need to know. You couldn't pay me to send a team there.
World Tae Kwon Do Juniors to be held in Egypt?
- Thread starter Master Dan
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then you go break the news to the kids who trained and fought hard to make junior team, that you are cancelling the trip, even though:
1) the soccer riot involved egyptian people for the most part, and not americans.
2) the americans who were arrested were involved in pro-democracy activities, which the junior national team will not be involved with.
3) the world junior championships is being run by a general in the egyptian army, who no doubt will have a large armed presence in place to protect everyone associated with the event, including president choue, secretary general yang, and all the junior national teams in attendance.
4) the tournament is 2 and a half months away, and a lot can happen in that time.
5) egypt has as much or more to lose than usa if their relationship breaks down. both sides have a strong incentive to work things out.
6) neither usat nor wtf has made a decision yet on whether the world juniors is still a go or not.
i for one think that a wait and see attitude is more appropriate, rather than flying off the handle in a reactive fashion by making a premature decision. perhaps the right decision will be to postpone the event and move it to an alternate venue in an alternate country. if i were wtf, i would be looking into such contingency plans as we speak. if i were at the wtf secretariat, we would be first contacting the others who bid for the junior worlds and see if they can still do it. i would be contacting that general who is wtf vp to hear his opinions and viewpoints on the matter. in short, i would learn from the lessons of ten years ago and not make snap judgments based on emotion but rather i would think it through, from a big picture global perspective. reactive hostility and rush judgments are not what we need right now, in this situation or any other involving the wtf, usat, kukkiwon or any other major thing going on at the moment. that sort of thing got us usat in the first place.
I think you need to check your blood pressure. I really don't disagree with anything you've said here. Not sure where all this "fly off the handle" and "snap decisions" stuff came from. Regardless, My concern is for the American kids because it's OUR relationship with Egypt that's strained right now. If the situation improves, fine. If it doesn't, I wouldn't send the team. There are worse things in life than disappointment. If my opinion doesn't sit well with you, oh well...
Yes, the tournament is 2 1/2 month away. High time to find an alternate venue and get cracking.
So the kids won't get to an event. Tough luck. One of life's lessons to be learned: Sometimes the poop hits the fan and things don't work out.
And one of Martial Arts first lesson: Avoid trouble if you can.
You don't go down dark alleys in shady neighborhoods, why would you go to a country teedering on the brink of a violent civil unrest?
So the kids won't get to an event. Tough luck. One of life's lessons to be learned: Sometimes the poop hits the fan and things don't work out.
And one of Martial Arts first lesson: Avoid trouble if you can.
You don't go down dark alleys in shady neighborhoods, why would you go to a country teedering on the brink of a violent civil unrest?
Over the last four years I have travelled and competed in Turkey, Spain, Egypt, Uzbekistan and Russia. All of these countries are on the be careful list. We live in a bubble in the United States and sometimes take for granted things other counties deal with on a daily basis. Traveling abroad always has a higher threat level than most Americans ever have to deal with. NGBs do listen and watch the information from the State Department and actually receive briefings from them before they send their athletes out of country. I was supposed to go to the Pan American Poomsae Championships in Mexico but our NGB cancelled that event. Would I have been safe? The answer is probably yes.
I lived in the Middle East for five years and despite the danger it was one of the best things I could have ever done. Traveling as an athlete to places I would have never thought to go, like Uzbekistan and Vladivostok Russia, make me realize how close the people of the world really are. You can hide in your bubble or you can take a chance and see the real world and meet the real people. It is a great way to erase the stereotypes our country seems to like to create.
I can understand a parents concern for their child and respect ones choice not to send them. Each individual has to make that choice themselves and for those who never have to make that choice then I think that you are missing out.
I lived in the Middle East for five years and despite the danger it was one of the best things I could have ever done. Traveling as an athlete to places I would have never thought to go, like Uzbekistan and Vladivostok Russia, make me realize how close the people of the world really are. You can hide in your bubble or you can take a chance and see the real world and meet the real people. It is a great way to erase the stereotypes our country seems to like to create.
I can understand a parents concern for their child and respect ones choice not to send them. Each individual has to make that choice themselves and for those who never have to make that choice then I think that you are missing out.
That holds true for peace times.
However, currently things can go either way and as organization responsible for hundreds of people, things are a bit different and one ought to err on the side of caution.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #27
I want to thank all of you for your input I was concerned that no one was talking about this thank you so much
We went to th JR World Team Trials my son won his first two fights lost to the kid who won gold. We know his Master quite well. This is going to be a tough decision for all involved. The safety of the athlete must take priority. There will be other tournaments. I hope that they can go but we will see. Tough call!!!!
Borrowed my father's omeron machine, 110/60.
Read the complete thread, especially the earlier posts.
The WTF Secretary General is an american citizen, and I am sure that he is also thinking of the safety of not only the american team, but all teams and participants. If this were the USTU days, when our president was also WTF Vice President, certainly a call would have already been made inquiring about this situation, a call no doubt that would have been followed up with numerous other calls to the WTF Vice President from Egypt who is a general in the Egyptian Army that is hosting World Juniors this year. Can't say what USAT is doing in that regard though, given that our current CEO has no relationships internationally in the world of taekwondo.But he does have USOC experience, and is no doubt following USOC protocols on the matter. USOC is probably working on this as well. I would say that USAT is probably leaning towards cancelling the trip, for financial reasons, although if the trip is cancelled, the stated reason will be safety concerns.
Contrast this to what you said earlier:
At the same time, no need to cause disappointment if we do not have to. These kids train hard to make team, ten or more years sometimes, and this may be their last chance due to their age. I personally would rather not take away their opportunities to excel if I do not have to. No harm in waiting and seeing or in taking a measured, studied, informed approach before a decision is made. I don't want anything to happen to these kids or the staff either.
Which opinion, the one in your first post or the one in your latest post?
My second post merely expands my position a bit more. Several folks are of the same opinion on the subject as I am. Go troll someone else for awhile.
The British Foreign Office has for several years now put out warnings about Egypt, it has been the scene of quite a lot of violence against tourists over the past few years. The current problems aren't new at all.
http://www.usdivetravel.com/T-EgyptTerrorism.html
this is the current FCO warnings http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and...ice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/egypt
http://www.usdivetravel.com/T-EgyptTerrorism.html
this is the current FCO warnings http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and...ice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/egypt
mastercole
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Puunui points out that you contradict your own opinions so your response is "troll"? Serious question, just so I know. Are you in middle or high school?
My response was not troll, as in a name, it was trolling, as in an action. When one individual continually targets the posts of another even though the pov is no different than others, yes, that's trolling. Not allowed. Neither are personal attacks btw, but I think you know that. If that's your definition of a serious question, well, that speaks for itself. This isn't the first time you two have played your tag team poo flinging, but I'm really not interested, so take it some where else and just speak to the OP.
mastercole
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Trolling is conducted by trolls, same thing. Unless of course one would like to contradict ones self, again. So take your name calling somewhere else, and just speak to the OP. Thank you for your cooperation.
Personally, I think that the way juniors think they can act towards seniors is doing and will do much more damage to taekwondo in the long run than getting taken out of the olympics ever will do. If the situation were reversed, you and I would consider our senior's words very carefully and attempt to understand their point of view and what was trying to be expressed, which in this case, is learning how the thought process goes within the international and/or national governing structure. Of course, if someone is not interested in that sort of thing, because they are not interested in the national or international competition aspects of taekwondo, as an athlete, coach, referee or administrator/leader or even tournament host, then they may have a different point of view. The reality of the situation is that a whole lot of people are affected by these types of decisions, not just the athletes, so a measured approach is the best approach, one that takes in all perspectives, and not just one particular perspective. And that has been the challenge at USAT, the fact that only one particular perspective was being considered and a junior perspective at that.
We need to move away from that sort of thinking.
