General Choi Invented Tae Kwon Do

[Bruno@MT]

Now THAT's funny from the ironical standpoint that he will likely kill the sport of TKD within the next 2 yrs.

As an outsider, I'd say that the real irony is that many TKDers would be thrilled to see that happen.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

In that case, then General Choi is basically claiming that he is Jesus.

I always pictured Jesus as more of an aikido guy myself.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

As an outsider, I'd say that the real irony is that many TKDers would be thrilled to see that happen.

But most of them would probably settle for USAT being killed within the next two years.

Daniel

 

[chrispillertkd]

I always pictured Jesus as more of an aikido guy myself.

Daniel

Do they use a whip in Aikido?

Pax,

Chris

 

[miguksaram]

In that case, then General Choi is basically claiming that he is Jesus.

I would say more like Jim Jones...kool-aid anyone?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Do they use a whip in Aikido?

Pax,

Chris

Nah. That was just for the cool sound effects.

Daniel

 

[chrispillertkd]

Nah. That was just for the cool sound effects.

Daniel

I think the money changers in the Temple may have disagreed with you on that point.

Pax,

Chris

 

[puunui]

Well, no. Gen. Choi was claiming to be the equivalent of Jigoro Kano. Balrog brought up the analogy with Christianity.

Same result. Both comparisons are invalid in my opinion.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Same result. Both comparisons are invalid in my opinion.

It's not the same result at all. Of course, I also don't think Taekwon-Do is a divinely revealed religion (that is only one reason why I think Balrog's analogy limps badly).

My reason for posting the original quote was to give people a clearer understanding of what Gen. Choi said in the interview in question. Whether you think it's an accurate comparison or not is irrelevant.

Pax,

Chris

 

[puunui]

It's not the same result at all. Of course, I also don't think Taekwon-Do is a divinely revealed religion (that is only one reason why I think Balrog's analogy limps badly).

My reason for posting the original quote was to give people a clearer understanding of what Gen. Choi said in the interview in question. Whether you think it's an accurate comparison or not is irrelevant.

Pax,

Chris

everyone is entitled to their "opinion".

 

[andyjeffries]

It's not the same result at all. Of course, I also don't think Taekwon-Do is a divinely revealed religion (that is only one reason why I think Balrog's analogy limps badly).

Of course, us atheists don't believe Christianity is divinely revealed either... ;-)

 

[Master Dan]

But most of them would probably settle for USAT being killed within the next two years.

Daniel

I just thought a comment to me from a senior master who is active both as a national and international referee seemed frustrated with so much energy being put into tearing down what already exists and hoping for the day people can be focused again on the students and athletes?

 

[puunui]

I just thought a comment to me from a senior master who is active both as a national and international referee seemed frustrated with so much energy being put into tearing down what already exists and hoping for the day people can be focused again on the students and athletes?

Where was that senior master seven or eight years ago when they were tearing down the USTU, which caused the present situation to develop in the first place?

 

[puunui]

Of course, us atheists don't believe Christianity is divinely revealed either... ;-)

Let's wait a thousand years. I am sure there will be people out there who think Taekwon-Do was devinely revealed to General Choi....

 

[Master Dan]

Where was that senior master seven or eight years ago when they were tearing down the USTU, which caused the present situation to develop in the first place?

What good is this question it is not a question but a statement going back to the same old diatribe of only the Korean born had a good NGB and our woes now are all the non Korean Born people who tore it down? USTU is responsible for its own demise and USAT is also responsible for its own actions.

Go back farther the real blame is on taking that which was meant to be an Eastern philosophy art form and for the purpose of power and money was commercialized inviting greed and coruption which any large scale commercial sport activity atracts including the Olympics.

Going back to 1992 in an article called TOLLING THE DEATH KNELL FOR TAE KWON DO
By Sang Kyu Shim Tae Kwon Do times, he states that True martial art has been obsured, the art having been lieterally exploited to serve economic, personal and political ends.

Further he states that Unfortunately, Western misrepresentations of the martial arts have corupted the proper conception of genuine martial art. The most significant and dangerous of these distortions characterizes the martial arts as synonymous with "Sport",
with particular emphasis placed on sparring. But who created the Western misrepresentations the very people who brought it here inorder to advertise and gain income.

I was complaining of this in the 70's that peopel were being given rank with out skill or rank just based on punches and kicks and bad character but more trophies meant more paying white belts. It was this and the treatment of the US non Korean born populations as a less than equal peoples and a commodity to be exploited that created the unloyal or disinfranchised.

Even so the real enemy is money and the worship of Sport. The cats out of the bag and I don't think we can bring the majority back to traditional MA until it runs its course I can only hope that the majority will put thier time and energy into the USTC. Those few 1% elite can still go after thier dream but the other 99% should not be paying for it.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think the money changers in the Temple may have disagreed with you on that point.

Pax,

Chris

He used his ki to drive them out. The whip was just a nice visual cue. Welts on the money changer's rumps was a nice bonus though.

Daniel

 

[puunui]

What good is this question it is not a question but a statement going back to the same old diatribe of only the Korean born had a good NGB and our woes now are all the non Korean Born people who tore it down?

What are you talking about? There was no mention in your original post about the race or national origin of the referee who made the statement that you paraphrased, so I don't know how you can assume that I was referring to Korean borns or non-Korean borns when I asked my legitimate question, which remains unanswered by the way. But that's ok, you don't have to answer.

USTU is responsible for its own demise and USAT is also responsible for its own actions.

If you say so. Personally I think the USOC is responsible.

Go back farther the real blame is on taking that which was meant to be an Eastern philosophy art form and for the purpose of power and money was commercialized inviting greed and coruption which any large scale commercial sport activity atracts including the Olympics.

Large scale commercial sport activity. So are commercial school owners to blame? All of them or just certain ones?

Going back to 1992 in an article called TOLLING THE DEATH KNELL FOR TAE KWON DO By Sang Kyu Shim Tae Kwon Do times, he states that True martial art has been obsured, the art having been lieterally exploited to serve economic, personal and political ends.

GM Shim was editor in chief of Taekwondo Times, a magazine many feel is the most exploitive periodical out there on Taekwondo. Besides that, you do realize that GM Shim was a full time commercial school owner for the majority of his life in the United States?

Further he states that Unfortunately, Western misrepresentations of the martial arts have corupted the proper conception of genuine martial art. The most significant and dangerous of these distortions characterizes the martial arts as synonymous with "Sport",
with particular emphasis placed on sparring.

You should read his book, in particular the chapter entitled Taekwondo and Sport, in which he lovingly speaks about the virtues of competition and sparring. There are also chapters regarding how ancient Taekwondo is, something that I believe you complained about recently in another thread.

But who created the Western misrepresentations the very people who brought it here inorder to advertise and gain income.

Competition is not some sort of western misrepresentation; since there have been a history of unarmed competition in Korea for the longest time, namely Taekkyon. Taekkyon wasn’t used to defend Korea; they used bows and arrows, swords and other weapons for that, in much the same way that our modern military relies primarily on weapons for war. Taekkyon was a competition, fought in arenas; if you kicked your opponent’s top knot or pushed him down, you won. They way SON Duk Ki described it, it was Korea’s version of an MMA champion, with all the same sorts of rewards and perks involved, including but not limited to groupies.

I was complaining of this in the 70's that peopel were being given rank with out skill or rank just based on punches and kicks and bad character but more trophies meant more paying white belts.

Complaining to who, your instructor? What happened, those who were successful at tournaments got promoted faster than the non-competitors? If so, that policy is written directly in the Kukkiwon promotion regulations. If you win gold at the Olympics for example, the time in grade requirement for your next promotion is waived.

It was this and the treatment of the US non Korean born populations as a less than equal peoples and a commodity to be exploited that created the unloyal or disinfranchised.

It is clear that some practitioners were abused and exploited by their instructors. But this exploitation is not limited to Korean borns over non-Korean borns. In fact, in my state the most abusive instructors are the non-Korean borns.

Even so the real enemy is money and the worship of Sport. The cats out of the bag and I don't think we can bring the majority back to traditional MA until it runs its course I can only hope that the majority will put thier time and energy into the USTC. Those few 1% elite can still go after thier dream but the other 99% should not be paying for it.

I personally believe that the real enemy is ignorance.

As for bringing the majority back to traditional martial arts, from my perspective, the majority never left. Only a small percentage of dojang focus on competition, even less today during the failed USAT experiment. If you have been reading some of the other threads, tournament participation is way down, both nationally and locally.