Working out outside of the dojo

[drop bear]

It's a supplement for now, to help the body get in overall shape, and avoids any real risk of over-training.

Three nights a week isnt over training.

He can physically do more and get better results more quickly if he wants. The quicker he dumps the weight the easier it would be.

 

[dvcochran]

It's been a few years out for me since I've learned this, so someone more educated can correct me, but I'm pretty sure walking that amount can actually help with weightloss, if it's done in the morning. Moving around in the morning increases your metabolism for the rest of the day, which can cause you to burn more calories as the day goes on.

That is correct. Many, many studies back this up.

 

[drop bear]

That is correct. Many, many studies back this up.

I would have thought weights.

 

[dvcochran]

If you haven't seen my other posts, I have returned to karate after about 15 years. I'm super overweight, but I'm keeping up in class, although not always gracefully. However, tonight's class definitely showed me that I have a long ways to go! Our sensei worked us pretty hard and at one point I felt like I was just flinging my limbs out in front of me trying to get through it. Although I did take some solace in another student stepping off the floor because she needed a breather.

It says a lot that after a tough class you are aware that there is work to be done. Some would just be happy with making it back to the couch.

I'm training 3 nights per week at the dojo (about 1 hour and 15 minutes each), and last week I started going to a 50 minute college class 2 nights per week - although the college class is pretty slow paced and is really more about working on technique for me than fitness. While my fitness level is certainly improving through this alone, I feel like I need to 1) do more cardio so I stop getting wiped out during kihon, and 2) get stronger legs.

So you are working out 5 nights/week? This is a full plate for most people who work a job of any kind. How are you handling this new level of working out with the rest of your lifestyle? If all is good, then you may be able to add something to the schedule. But I caution you with burnout. It is very real and it can really crash a good workout regimen. I have never seen you so I am doing a generous amount of guessing. You say you are very overweight. The way I hear that, working out 3-5 days/week is a very good pace. Physical improvement is a marathon not a sprint. It is different for everyone but it will take at least a few months to see appreciable gains in endurance and in weight loss. Probably longer. I don't want this to sound like a downer, just the opposite. You should feel very good that you are working out at a very healthy pace. It just takes time and commitment.

What do you all recommend I do? I have access to a good gym at my university and it basically has everything. I was thinking I might want to do some swimming on non-dojo days. Would it be a good idea to do some additional workouts on dojo days? Maybe some cycling or something? I'm afraid of over doing it and having no energy for karate, though.

If you have a good set of stairs, say 10-20 steps that have a return ramp, I suggest walking the steps and returning back down the ramp to save your knees. This WILL get you in a cardio phase if done at a brisk pace, and if convenient it is easier and quicker than the pool. You did mention that you gravitate back to the couch on the weekends. If the pool is convenient, it would be a great weekend workout, and something different so maybe it would keep things fresh.
I am excited to hear how things go. Keep in touch.

 

[dvcochran]

As others have said, walking in the mornings is a very good idea. It engrains a really good lifestyle habit. No offense meant but your weight alone should accelerate building leg strength with walking. If you want to push more and save your knees, you can add ankle weights or even better place weight just above or below the knee.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I would have thought weights.

From what I remember, walking helps boost your metabolism for the day more. Weights will increase your muscle size, which will increase your overall metabolism. The better option would be to either walk or do cardio in the morning, followed by weights/musclebuilding in the afternoon, and technical training for your sport in the evening, if your goal is to improve at a sport and get in shape. That was the general rule I learned for people from my college trainers, that they stick to for most sports when designing workout programs. YMMV

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Jump rope. Best training there is. Balance, timing, coordination, speed, aerobic, low impact, builds spring in your step, and you can't overtrain. You'll stop when you begin to suck at it. If you suck from day one, you'll get better at about the right pace for cv heath. Dare anyone to say otherwise.

 

[jobo]

Thanks for your responses!

@jobo - Since you brought it up, I am dieting as well and have lost some weight, although not a significant amount yet. Because I'm so big, I think it will be a while before I lose enough weight to make my life easier.



Hmmm, I'm not sure short burst cardio is exactly my problem, although this probably depends on your definition of short. I don't have issues with doing a set of drills or doing sets of drills for 10 minutes. However, after 15 to 20 minutes of it without stopping for a break beyond turning around at at the wall, I get very worn down, particularly if there's lots of kicking involved. So if I could build up to doing intense (for me) cardio for 30 minutes straight, whether it be swimming, cycling, fast walking, whatever, I feel like that would help keep me going in class.

Squats sound like a good idea - my legs are weaker than I'd like and I'm not doing deep enough stances. However, holding deep stances while might be more beneficial.





Thanks for your input - I definitely want whatever I do extra to be low impact, which is why my mind immediately went to swimming laps. I'm already putting stress on my joints. I don't need more! However, low impact can still be intense cardio-wise, which I do think would be helpful. However, you do make a good point that I should be more patient with myself, especially since injury will hit the reset button! Perhaps I should limit anything extra to the days without training at the dojo. I'm also thinking there may be some value to doing this on the weekend - Saturdays and Sundays have been true off days, and Mondays have been a bit rougher than the rest of the week, which I assume is because I've been going into couch potato mode on the weekend. Sunday might be a good day for some swimming!



I actually do like this suggestion that you and @Bruce7 made. One of my sensei also suggested walking more. However, I do have a finite amount of time that I can devote to exercise and I hate treadmills. Walking outside is an option, but it's winter here in western Oregon, which means rain, rain, and more rain. When the weather improves, weekend hiking will become an option, too.

if you want to be able to do 15 mins of moderate activity with out feeling it, do five mins of brutal activity, be that running or swimming or kettlebells or what ever, as long as your working above 80% and reach failure, it has an enormous impact on your longevity, not that youl be able to run marathon,, but a dojo work out wont even register on your scale of effort

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Three nights a week isnt over training.

He can physically do more and get better results more quickly if he wants. The quicker he dumps the weight the easier it would be.

Frequency doesn’t determine what is it is not overtraining- mostly, soreness does. Hobo appears to be suggesting intense exercise as a starting point, which is probably counter-productive until a foundation of fitness is established. I’m just suggesting to the OP that he start easy (between his MA classes) and ramp it up as his body allows, rather than pushing too hard and setting himself back.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I would have thought weights.

Weights do have more impact, insofar as the exercise increases lean muscle. The actual effect is pretty small in the short term, but more significant over longer periods.

 

[jobo]

Jump rope. Best training there is. Balance, timing, coordination, speed, aerobic, low impact, builds spring in your step, and you can't overtrain. You'll stop when you begin to suck at it. If you suck from day one, you'll get better at about the right pace for cv heath. Dare anyone to say otherwise.

you could say exactly the same for playing tag

 

[jobo]

Frequency doesn’t determine what is it is not overtraining- mostly, soreness does. Hobo appears to be suggesting intense exercise as a starting point, which is probably counter-productive until a foundation of fitness is established. I’m just suggesting to the OP that he start easy (between his MA classes) and ramp it up as his body allows, rather than pushing too hard and setting himself back.

intense is very necessary to make progress, it's just want counts as intense changes as he gets fitter, running above 80% is a personal thing, when he is fitter 80% represents a lot more work done

 

[dvcochran]

Frequency doesn’t determine what is it is not overtraining- mostly, soreness does. Hobo appears to be suggesting intense exercise as a starting point, which is probably counter-productive until a foundation of fitness is established. I’m just suggesting to the OP that he start easy (between his MA classes) and ramp it up as his body allows, rather than pushing too hard and setting himself back.

I think Hobo is speaking from the ignorance of youth.

 

[drop bear]

Frequency doesn’t determine what is it is not overtraining- mostly, soreness does. Hobo appears to be suggesting intense exercise as a starting point, which is probably counter-productive until a foundation of fitness is established. I’m just suggesting to the OP that he start easy (between his MA classes) and ramp it up as his body allows, rather than pushing too hard and setting himself back.

Not really. The fitter he gets faster the easier it will be.

Not saying it won't suck. But it is doable. He is going to be sore.

 

[drop bear]

I think Hobo is speaking from the ignorance of youth.

No we recently put a 50 plus guy through this and got him in his first fight.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What do you all recommend I do?

- For group training, You may consider to form a fighting club.
- For self training, you can drill 4 different combos E, S, W, N and repeat 20 times daily. After 1 week, you may change into another 4 combos. This way you will always have 4 combos handy in case you have to use it.

For example:

1. E - roundhouse kick, side kick, back kick, spin back fist.
2. S - front kick, jab, cross, hook, hook.
3. W - hip throw, single leg.
4. N - elbow lock, shoulder lock.

 

[Orion Nebula]

It's been a few years out for me since I've learned this, so someone more educated can correct me, but I'm pretty sure walking that amount can actually help with weightloss, if it's done in the morning. Moving around in the morning increases your metabolism for the rest of the day, which can cause you to burn more calories as the day goes on.

As others have said, walking in the mornings is a very good idea. It engrains a really good lifestyle habit. No offense meant but your weight alone should accelerate building leg strength with walking. If you want to push more and save your knees, you can add ankle weights or even better place weight just above or below the knee.

I'm not going to lie - while I am a fan of walking, I am not a fan of mornings and I don't think I could ever summon the motivation to immediately go for walk right after waking up. I wonder if there is a window of time for when it is effective. I actually do get about a 15 minute walk in on my way to the office, because I park so far away, although it is a leisurely walk. The only problem with brisk walking is that I'm prone to pain in the side of my lower leg when I walk fast (probably the peroneal tendons). Proper footwear has helped this and I have a stretch that helps, too, but if I walk too long at a brisk pace the pain becomes unbearable. However, at a slow pace I can walk for miles on end (at least on a level grade, anyway).

Those hikes would be a good addition, assuming there's some hills and uneven terrain. The hills will help develop leg strength, and the uneven terrain is good for balance and stability muscles.

But yeah, if time and weather make that less useful, find an analog of some sort. The idea is to add some light cardio work (about as intense as a brisk walk) first. When that's easy (which might be immediately, or a few weeks into it), step it up. The shorter the time you can commit, the more intensity you want to bring, but don't go insane on it right away (obviously). You're already getting an intense (for you) workout 3 times a week (I think I got that right).

Here are some other options, which might also not take as much time (and I won't suggest treadmills - I'd personally rather be dragged behind a slow-moving truck). Rowing machines combine strength and cardio, to some extent. If you can do the stationary bikes, perhaps some moderate hill work on those. Or just put together a strength-oriented routine you can do without stopping, or with very short rest intervals. My favorite for the latter is kettlebell workouts - you can work with two kettlebells and do a whole-body workout in under 20 minutes. If you do it with only brief (10-20 second) breaks between exercises, it serves a bit as cardio, too.

Believe me, there are hills. The area I live in is as flat as a pancake, but once you leave the valley, you are in mountain country. One of my fitness goals is to be able to hike to the top of one of our tallest peaks, which is somewhere over 10,000 feet. The trail is only 6 miles to the top from the nearest trailhead, but it's steep and once you hit about 5,000 feet, it gets much harder to breathe. I remember walking up a tiny hill at Crater Lake and it felt like I had just walked up several flights of stairs.

I actually do enjoy stationary bikes! I can get going at a much higher intensity than walking because I'm not limited by leg pain. Although in the past I've solved this on the treadmill by walking more slowly at a high incline. But I really do hate treadmills. I'll look into the kettlebells - I've heard people talk about them, but I have no idea what you do with them. It may be something I'd like.

It says a lot that after a tough class you are aware that there is work to be done. Some would just be happy with making it back to the couch.

So you are working out 5 nights/week? This is a full plate for most people who work a job of any kind. How are you handling this new level of working out with the rest of your lifestyle? If all is good, then you may be able to add something to the schedule. But I caution you with burnout. It is very real and it can really crash a good workout regimen. I have never seen you so I am doing a generous amount of guessing. You say you are very overweight. The way I hear that, working out 3-5 days/week is a very good pace. Physical improvement is a marathon not a sprint. It is different for everyone but it will take at least a few months to see appreciable gains in endurance and in weight loss. Probably longer. I don't want this to sound like a downer, just the opposite. You should feel very good that you are working out at a very healthy pace. It just takes time and commitment.

If you have a good set of stairs, say 10-20 steps that have a return ramp, I suggest walking the steps and returning back down the ramp to save your knees. This WILL get you in a cardio phase if done at a brisk pace, and if convenient it is easier and quicker than the pool. You did mention that you gravitate back to the couch on the weekends. If the pool is convenient, it would be a great weekend workout, and something different so maybe it would keep things fresh.
I am excited to hear how things go. Keep in touch.

Yes, I am working out 5 nights per week, but two of those nights are on the light side. After a night at the dojo, I come home soaked in sweat. The college class, on the other hand, barely makes me perspire, but it depends on what we're doing. I don't have a regular 9 - 5 job at the moment. I'm in graduate school and a lot of my time is spent at the computer and it's actually quite flexible since I've finished almost all of my coursework. So it wouldn't be hard to fit in some extra workouts, but naturally I don't have time to add in hours upon hours of exercise. But it's working fine for me right now, although I have had some sore days and I have taken a day off when I needed it. Oh, and I am indeed very overweight. If I lost half of my body weight, I would still be considered overweight on a BMI chart (although only by a few pounds and the BMI can go pound sand anyway).

I'm not sure if there are steps with a ramp anywhere, although there are stepping machines I think. Of course, there are buildings with 5 or 6 floors that I could walk to the top and take the elevator back down. That sounds miserable, though. At least swimming in enjoyable! The pool is actually less convenient on the weekends, though.

if you want to be able to do 15 mins of moderate activity with out feeling it, do five mins of brutal activity, be that running or swimming or kettlebells or what ever, as long as your working above 80% and reach failure, it has an enormous impact on your longevity, not that youl be able to run marathon,, but a dojo work out wont even register on your scale of effort

I wouldn't say I want to do 15 minutes of moderate activity without feeling it, but I get what you're saying. I'm actually having trouble visualizing something brutal. Running comes to mind, but I know I can't do that for 5 minutes. Maybe a fast front crawl in the pool? I've read that interval training is also good for improving fitness. 5 minutes of intense activity followed by a longer period of lighter activity and so on. It might be helpful to apply that here.

Frequency doesn’t determine what is it is not overtraining- mostly, soreness does. Hobo appears to be suggesting intense exercise as a starting point, which is probably counter-productive until a foundation of fitness is established. I’m just suggesting to the OP that he start easy (between his MA classes) and ramp it up as his body allows, rather than pushing too hard and setting himself back.

intense is very necessary to make progress, it's just want counts as intense changes as he gets fitter, running above 80% is a personal thing, when he is fitter 80% represents a lot more work done

I think you are both suggesting something similar, but gpseymour is suggesting I start off on a lighter note first to make sure I don't burn out and then ramp it up. More of an exploratory exercise in finding what's easy before getting more intense, which I think is a wise suggestion.

 

[Gweilo]

As you have probably read, there is lots of advice and opinions available to you, the walking and the swimming would be great for now, but do take rest days, and listen to your own body, it is easy to go over the top when we feel real benefit after a short return to some form of exercise, keep it real, and push yourself in stages.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not really. The fitter he gets faster the easier it will be.

Not saying it won't suck. But it is doable. He is going to be sore.

The research I've seen suggests that being more sore makes the path to fitness longer, especially if it includes injury from starting up too hard, too fast.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not going to lie - while I am a fan of walking, I am not a fan of mornings and I don't think I could ever summon the motivation to immediately go for walk right after waking up. I wonder if there is a window of time for when it is effective. I actually do get about a 15 minute walk in on my way to the office, because I park so far away, although it is a leisurely walk. The only problem with brisk walking is that I'm prone to pain in the side of my lower leg when I walk fast (probably the peroneal tendons). Proper footwear has helped this and I have a stretch that helps, too, but if I walk too long at a brisk pace the pain becomes unbearable. However, at a slow pace I can walk for miles on end (at least on a level grade, anyway).



Believe me, there are hills. The area I live in is as flat as a pancake, but once you leave the valley, you are in mountain country. One of my fitness goals is to be able to hike to the top of one of our tallest peaks, which is somewhere over 10,000 feet. The trail is only 6 miles to the top from the nearest trailhead, but it's steep and once you hit about 5,000 feet, it gets much harder to breathe. I remember walking up a tiny hill at Crater Lake and it felt like I had just walked up several flights of stairs.

I actually do enjoy stationary bikes! I can get going at a much higher intensity than walking because I'm not limited by leg pain. Although in the past I've solved this on the treadmill by walking more slowly at a high incline. But I really do hate treadmills. I'll look into the kettlebells - I've heard people talk about them, but I have no idea what you do with them. It may be something I'd like.



Yes, I am working out 5 nights per week, but two of those nights are on the light side. After a night at the dojo, I come home soaked in sweat. The college class, on the other hand, barely makes me perspire, but it depends on what we're doing. I don't have a regular 9 - 5 job at the moment. I'm in graduate school and a lot of my time is spent at the computer and it's actually quite flexible since I've finished almost all of my coursework. So it wouldn't be hard to fit in some extra workouts, but naturally I don't have time to add in hours upon hours of exercise. But it's working fine for me right now, although I have had some sore days and I have taken a day off when I needed it. Oh, and I am indeed very overweight. If I lost half of my body weight, I would still be considered overweight on a BMI chart (although only by a few pounds and the BMI can go pound sand anyway).

I'm not sure if there are steps with a ramp anywhere, although there are stepping machines I think. Of course, there are buildings with 5 or 6 floors that I could walk to the top and take the elevator back down. That sounds miserable, though. At least swimming in enjoyable! The pool is actually less convenient on the weekends, though.



I wouldn't say I want to do 15 minutes of moderate activity without feeling it, but I get what you're saying. I'm actually having trouble visualizing something brutal. Running comes to mind, but I know I can't do that for 5 minutes. Maybe a fast front crawl in the pool? I've read that interval training is also good for improving fitness. 5 minutes of intense activity followed by a longer period of lighter activity and so on. It might be helpful to apply that here.





I think you are both suggesting something similar, but gpseymour is suggesting I start off on a lighter note first to make sure I don't burn out and then ramp it up. More of an exploratory exercise in finding what's easy before getting more intense, which I think is a wise suggestion.

You've clearly given this some good thought. You're listening to your body (that pain in the leg - by the way, make sure you've talked to a doctor about that, just to get advice if it keeps up) and getting a fair amount of exercise. The 15 minute walk to/from your car is a good thing, even when you have to take it easy. That stuff does add up for general health. I think you're pretty much on the right track with what you're doing and thinking of adding.