Won Hyo

[FizzyCal]

Anybody have any ideas about what the first two moves of Won Hyo could be. My instructor and I were talking possible theories. One theory involves a counter to a wrist grab. Thought I'd ask for other ideas.

 

[granfire]

a grab with a strike to the arm or a grab of the collar, pulling the opponent close, than whacking him on the ear.

But it's been a few years since I did the unadulterated ITF derived form.

 

[RobinTKD]

Firstly its a double block (rising with the right hand, mid-section with the left) then you're quite right, someone has grabbed your left arm, you knife-hand strike the collar bone then punch them midsection.

With the possible exceptions to some of what I've seen from Iain Abernathy, I don't put too much faith into set bunkai in forms, especially TKD forms. The knife-hand movement though is very useful for helping to break boards using a knife-hand.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Text book answer: #1. Twin outer forearm block. Right arm is rising outer forearm block and left is high outer forearm Block. #2 High Inward strike withthe right knifehand (Note: This is a technique specific exception to the High = Eye and is stipulated as neck artery level) while bringing opposite side fist to the shoulder.

Alternate application theory is limited only by your imagination and practical considerations. The startinfg point can be the new ready stance and go from there vis a vis blocks, releases, joint locks etc.

 

[dancingalone]

One of the more obvious interpretations is the twin forearm block is a clinch hold. The attacker has thrown a left hook. You step inside of the punch with your right arm up as a checking block as you secure a hold on the back of his neck or failing that you grab his right shoulder with your left hand. Pulling him down and into your strike, you smash an inward right knifehand to the side of his neck.

 

[Jason Striker II]

As other members have said, there are various interpretations. Here's the best I know.

You and opponent are in left-facing stances (i.e. both have your left foot forward). He swings a left to you head - you half-step in with you lead (left) foot (back foot half-step follows) simultaneously blocking with your rear (right) forearm and uppercutting with lead (left) to THROAT. Now, with rear (right) hand, grab the arm you just blocked, or even his collar, with your rear (right) hand and hammer fist with the lead (left) to the SIDE OF THE NECK, or lead punch to THROAT.

Won Hyo is based off Heian Nidan.

 

[Cyriacus]

As I remember it, Grab the Collar > Strike the Neck > Let go and Punch the Face.

Im sure theres more to it than that, but hey.

 

[FizzyCal]

Most of those scenarios seem plausible. I really have a hard time envisioning a double block. If it's from a double attacker, the next moves in the form don't address the second attacker and I really can't see an attack from one person where you would be blocking high and low or mid and low at the same time.

 

[dancingalone]

Most of those scenarios seem plausible. I really have a hard time envisioning a double block. If it's from a double attacker, the next moves in the form don't address the second attacker and I really can't see an attack from one person where you would be blocking high and low or mid and low at the same time.

Yeah, those pictures we have of people like General Choi performing double blocks against 2 attackers really are unhelpful. People see them and think that's the real usage of dual arm techniques when that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Most of those scenarios seem plausible. I really have a hard time envisioning a double block. If it's from a double attacker, the next moves in the form don't address the second attacker and I really can't see an attack from one person where you would be blocking high and low or mid and low at the same time.

Well, If you perform # 2 According to the text it is not to an opponent directly to where your lead foot is pointing and where #3 goes. Instead the arm performing the inward Knifehand strike should form a parallel line with the rear foot which is pointing 15 degrees inward. Lets assume you start in the midle of a clock dial facing 12:00. For L stance - #1 Your rear foot would point to between 11:00; & 12:00. The inward Knifehand would be parallel to that.

Now, if you are a green belt these parmaters teach you how do move efficiently, powerfuly and in a well balanced manner. It gives you a specific standard to shoot for and allows the instructor / observer determine if you are achieving the standard. The specified paramaters are not magic or set in stone. They are a tool that helps you learn angels, distance and direction. You can later morph the technique to suit any number of purposes.

 

[WMKS Shogun]

Try this sometime with a partner:
1)Have your partner grab your collar or throat with both hands and hold on like they actually mean it. Step back into a back stance (L stance) and just as you settle your weight back, perform the picture-frame block (twin arm block, high/middle that starts Won-Hyo). This ought to break the hold due to the opponent's arms moving in very different directions.
2a) If they stand there as partners sometimes do, use the arm which performed the middle to counter grab and continue to pull them in towards a knifehand to the neck, just below the jaw line.
2b) If you have an active partner, they will likely use the arm which was pushed upwards to strike to your now-open ribs. Intersept with the middle level hand and knifehand strike to the humerous just above the elbow.
3) Shove them back just a little then twist in and strike to the ribs with a horse stance/side stance punch.

 

[Instructor]

I am going to go with twin forearm block to break choke hold (try it, it's surprisingly effective). Grab hair of enemy, slam knife hand into throat (possibly a variant of the brachial nerve strike). Punch away.

For what it's worth Won Hyo was always one of my favorites.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Messrs Shogun and Instructor. All applications with efficacy have value.

Any reason you have iseemingly ignored the "Ready Posture"

i.e. some one approaches you and moves to either grab the throat or collar with both hands. The move to the ready posture defends against this.

 

[Instructor]

Forgive me Earl I am having a little difficulty visualizing what you are talking about.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Forgive me Earl I am having a little difficulty visualizing what you are talking about.

You and attacker face each other . You are in a natural hands at sides position. Attacker reaches with both hands to grab your collar / neck. You move your hands to the close ready stance A position effectively blocking / defeating the attempted grab.

 

[Instructor]

Ahhh, yes I see your point. So where does that put us on the OP's question?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Ahhh, yes I see your point. So where does that put us on the OP's question?

See below for OP and my post #4.

>>1. Anybody have any ideas about what the first two moves of Won Hyo could be. My instructor and I were talking possible theories. One theory involves a counter to a wrist grab. Thought I'd ask for other ideas.
2. Re: Won Hyo

Text book answer: #1. Twin outer forearm block. Right arm is rising outer forearm block and left is high outer forearm Block. #2 High Inward strike withthe right knifehand (Note: This is a technique specific exception to the High = Eye and is stipulated as neck artery level) while bringing opposite side fist to the shoulder.

Alternate application theory is limited only by your imagination and practical considerations. The startinfg point can be the new ready stance and go from there vis a vis blocks, releases, joint locks etc. <<

The point I am trying to make is if you want to get into the "Alternate Application" realm as opposed to the textbok application realm You need to think outside the box and not just question what the applications of Move #X but how might those things be affected by what happened before or after move #x.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Sorry, my mistake. Move # 1 per text is a twin outer forearm block consisting of a rising outer forearm block and MIDDLE (not high as I mistakenly posted) outer forearm block. But, you already knw\ew that and were too polite to point out my error.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Some application demos forWon Hyo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEgfInEMCsM&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFnQBjpZGYU&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksj4AvRz8_0&feature=youtu.be

 

[Instructor]

Stepping outside the box considerably but in Hapkido terms it could be a block and elbow lock, but that's quite a stretch.