Womens SD Classes

[thesandman]

I disagree. There are very few good books on any sort of self defense, and most of them aren't specific to women's self defense.

There's actually quite a few really excellent books on this specific subject, many written by top female martial artists and their viewpoint is invaluable.

The problems that lead women to a shelter are not the same ones that will require self defense. There's overlap... but the women who wind up in shelters almost certainly need a lot more than a self defense class before they defend themselves against the greatest threat to their safety.

The reason to talk to them is not to teach them, but to hear their stories. Get a sense for how they feel and what kind of obstacles they feel are preventing them from being safe. If you haven't spoken to victims of violence against women, you have NO PLACE trying to teach women's self defense.

Teaching a women's self defense class is as much about sociology and psychology as it is about martial arts. We can't teach women's self defense from a male point of view. We must have a good understanding of the female point of view before we even think about trying to teach on this subject matter. Being expert martial artists does not qualify us to understand women. (if only it were so!)

 

[trainable]

Give a woman a fish, she eats for a day, teach her to fish, she eats for a lifetime. I know, I changed and butchered the context, but this is how I go about it.

I dont spend time teaching techniques. Techniques need to be drilled and the reps done to be effective. If you think they will remember in 5 months what you said on a saturday morning about which way the wrist turns, or which way to spin to get out of the headlock you are fooling yourself.

Simplicity is king for a one day course. Gross motor strikes, high percentile targets, and sound strategy. You guys have covered all the points. I would study and know the PINS that Gavin DeBecker outlines in "Gift of Fear", and work that into the intro on awareness. Its amazing what they will see when they walk out with that knowledge.

I would promote stun and run philosophy, not to get into the deathmatch, but to get away asap.

I would remind them to go towards the lights and noise.

I would train palms, elbows, forearms, knees and stomps. Add in face rakes and bites, tigers mouth type things that are easy to understand. It looks similar on the ground as it does standing up. Add the need for viciousness if you are pinned on the ground. I like to bite!

Closest weapon, closest target. It keeps them moving under the adrenal rush. Show them the targets from different angles, let them slowly move through the targets on each other to see how the weapon fits the target, then let them hit the bags with power. They need to see the elbow strike from the bear hug, they need to see the palmstrike from their back. It builds a picture for them to visualize success.

Mindset. What do I stand to lose if I do not survive. This fuels indignation, rage, and strength. "I want to see my kids grow up", should lead to "how dare you".....

Pattern interrupt. Distract your attacker. Ask a question. Look quickly offline. Get him out of the moment while you are about to strike. Even if a rape has already occured, when he goes to pack away his business, reward him for his crime. Mean it. M E A N it.

Women are much more likely than men to end up in the deathmatch. We need to remember this and give them tools they can remember 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years down the road. It is our responsibility to give them the best, most useful, non-perishable information and create that mental imprint that will "pop" in the most horrifying of times for them.

Come to think about it now, jack up a few verbal attacks with someone (arrange this, dont just start screaming at someone). I use a little acting flair with this to make it real. Afterward ask, "how did you feel when this started happening?". Not how did it feel, but how did YOU feel. Go from there and build your clients to survive.

Some great suggestions you guys have made, I will be adding them to my course!

 

[jks9199]

The reason to talk to them is not to teach them, but to hear their stories. Get a sense for how they feel and what kind of obstacles they feel are preventing them from being safe. If you haven't spoken to victims of violence against women, you have NO PLACE trying to teach women's self defense.

I know just a little bit about violence in the real world, and it's victims. I know just a bit about the types of attacks that women experience. I've seen them and their results. Probably much closer than you.

Teaching a women's self defense class is as much about sociology and psychology as it is about martial arts. We can't teach women's self defense from a male point of view. We must have a good understanding of the female point of view before we even think about trying to teach on this subject matter. Being expert martial artists does not qualify us to understand women. (if only it were so!)

An expert martial artist is NOT an expert on self defense. In fact, many expert martial artists don't have a clue about real self defense or real violence. You do have a point when you say that some understanding of the fundamental differences between women and men, and their relative victimization, is important -- but it's equally important to understand the real nature of violence.

 

[thesandman]

I know just a little bit about violence in the real world, and it's victims. I know just a bit about the types of attacks that women experience. I've seen them and their results. Probably much closer than you.

Okay. I'm not sure why you would assume a more intimate knowledge on this issue, but I don't know your history so I won't argue the point. Please also realize that when I said "you" I was speaking generally of anyone, not of you specifically. Please forgive me if you took my statement personally, I meant no disrespect.

An expert martial artist is NOT an expert on self defense. In fact, many expert martial artists don't have a clue about real self defense or real violence. You do have a point when you say that some understanding of the fundamental differences between women and men, and their relative victimization, is important -- but it's equally important to understand the real nature of violence.

I agree on the need for understanding of violence. I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that expert martial artists don't understand real self defense or real violence. I would think that would depend on the nature of their style and of their personal experiences. The only way to truly understand violence is to be involved in real world situations, which I would think most people would be glad to have avoided.

For that same reason, I question the judgment of anyone who is proud of their intimate understanding of real violence short of war veterans. But I digress, this is about what needs to be involved in teaching a women's self defense class. I stand by my assertion that real research must be done well in advance of any such undertaking. This includes grabbing any wisdom that can be gleamed from any of the available resources we have to us. Book, people, internet, whatever can be thought of. As instructors we owe to the women who take the step to attend these classes to make sure they walk away from the experience with the tools and motivation they need to truly make themselves safer. Frightening them with aggression or confusing them with complexity will not work.

To date I have taught 50 or so such courses, ranging from short 2hr seminars to 50+ hour programs and each time I have gone back to every available resource to make sure I'm approaching it with the humility and understanding required. I believe this has improved my ability to help the women who attend these classes.

I've also found that talking to women who have attended such courses a few weeks after the fact can be of great value. What kinds of things stuck with them? What faded with time? What was really useless? Every instructor has an obligation to work at improving themselves and their curriculum.

 

[seasoned]

I have taught many woman’s SD classes over the years. Most have been for collage level students with some senior’s also. I always started with the thought in mind that I was not trying to enroll them into a class with basics that are geared more toward long term building of foundational concepts. More over I would start with a good working knowledge of awareness of self and your surroundings, also teaching them that an attack on a woman should be taken very serious because of the intention factor involved with female victims. Next I would acquaint them with some weapons at their disposal that can be used fast and easy. A yell, a loud whistle for starters, then on to keys, pens, and pencils for striking to the face area. I never teach a woman to stand and fight but at the first chance to run. If running is not an option early in the attack, then we cover strikes. For ease of remembering, the strikes start high and continue low. I teach that when the arms are in trouble, use feet, and if the feet are in trouble, use hands, so the victim does not waste time trying to pull away something that has been grabbed. I don’t waste time on stances, but I do cover keeping the weight low and stay balanced. The areas I teach for strikes are ears, eyes, nose and throat because they are all in close proximity of each other and can be hit with an open hand. I have found that women in a short SD class have an adversity to closed fist hits. Next the flow continues down with solar plexus, groin, knees, and insteps. I feel that eyes are the most important target and should be the main area to go for first. A mugging or attack will happen very fast and that person will move in close and try to overwhelm the victim. My motto in class is stay clam and keep it simple. The use of striking pads are very important, and if possible a red man suit is excellent.

 

[hkfuie]

I know just a bit about the types of attacks that women experience. I've seen them and their results. Probably much closer than you.

-- but it's equally important to understand the real nature of violence.

Care to share more, jks9199, so I can learn?

Edited to add: Oh, no. I did not realize that this might be a personal thing. I took the "you" to be general. Did not read past jks9199's post before replying. My question is meant in all sincerity. I was hoping you could tell me what you know so I can add to my knowledge. Stephnnie

 

[Tez3]

I think there's some great suggestions here but, the very first thing I think you have to do in a womens SD class is to get them ok with the idea of confidently hitting someone. Non MA women will come into the class and be very nervous and possibly anxious. There is a taboo if you like on women fighting and even hitting back, it's not as 'natural' for women as it is men.
I think (and someone has mentioned this) the first thing I'd do is some bag or pad work to get them used to the idea that they can strike and give them some confidence. Learning techniques is no good to them unless they believe they can do them. It's fine doing partner drills but they know it's with friends/colleagues/other women whatever. They need things that will give them "permission" to let go and belt someone.They also need to learn not to freeze when hit themselves. Sadly and it sounds awful I know but most SD classes like this don't involve pain! Knowing you don't panic or freeze when struck is the best confidence boost there is, it doesn't mean you're being cocky, it means you're ready to defend yourself using one of the many good techniques mentioned here!

 

[Drac]

I think there's some great suggestions here but, the very first thing I think you have to do in a womens SD class is to get them ok with the idea of confidently hitting someone. Non MA women will come into the class and be very nervous and possibly anxious. There is a taboo if you like on women fighting and even hitting back, it's not as 'natural' for women as it is men.

Quite true...

I think (and someone has mentioned this) the first thing I'd do is some bag or pad work to get them used to the idea that they can strike and give them some confidence. Learning techniques is no good to them unless they believe they can do them.

Another excellent paragraph..All the effective techniques in the world will do you no good if they are afraid to use them..

They need things that will give them "permission" to let go and belt someone.

I have used things like loudly saying "STOP APOLOGIZING" when a female lands a good solid strike and then says 'I'm Sorry"...

They also need to learn not to freeze when hit themselves. Sadly and it sounds awful I know but most SD classes like this don't involve pain! Knowing you don't panic or freeze when struck is the best confidence boost there is, it doesn't mean you're being cocky, it means you're ready to defend yourself using one of the many good techniques mentioned here!

Well said...

 

[Tez3]

Thank you Drac! Oh the times I've heard women apologise for hitting someone and yes, I used to as well. It still lingers in me sometimes that hurting people is a big no-no. I had a man come into my class the other week,a beginner who knew it all and was being quite superior to me, the female instructor. We ended up grappling and because of his inexperience gave me his back, I put a rear naked choke on and it was clear he wasn't going to tap,my first thought was oh I must let go because I can't hurt him (not an instructor thing a female thing I assure you) the other students (all male) were shouting at him to tap but still he wouldn't, then I thought of my male instructor and whether he'd let go or not, Definitely not I thought so I didn't until he was so weak he had to tap.
This guy was arrogant and if left to carry on would have hurt another student or me, I felt I had to have confidence in my techniques and stop thinking like a woman who doesn't like to hurt people and stand up for myself. It's that which is the hardest thing to teach and the best thing to learn. Even if you hit an attacker with your brolly or handbag instead of using MA techniques, the thing is to know I CAN AND I WILL stand up for myself.

 

[Drac]

Thank you Drac! Oh the times I've heard women apologise for hitting someone and yes, I used to as well. It still lingers in me sometimes that hurting people is a big no-no. I had a man come into my class the other week,a beginner who knew it all and was being quite superior to me, the female instructor. We ended up grappling and because of his inexperience gave me his back, I put a rear naked choke on and it was clear he wasn't going to tap,my first thought was oh I must let go because I can't hurt him (not an instructor thing a female thing I assure you) the other students (all male) were shouting at him to tap but still he wouldn't, then I thought of my male instructor and whether he'd let go or not, Definitely not I thought so I didn't until he was so weak he had to tap.

Bravo Tez..

This guy was arrogant and if left to carry on would have hurt another student or me, I felt I had to have confidence in my techniques and stop thinking like a woman who doesn't like to hurt people and stand up for myself.

There always seems to be a know-it-all jerk off at every class

It's that which is the hardest thing to teach and the best thing to learn. Even if you hit an attacker with your brolly or handbag instead of using MA techniques, the thing is to know I CAN AND I WILL stand up for myself.

Well said...To our friends here that to not speak UK , a brolly is an umbrella...

 

[Drac]

Another skill that MUST be impressed on females is to SAY SOMETHING if someone is bothering you...When I was a bouncer I got to know my female regulars, and impressed upon them that if someone is bothering them to bring it to my attention, and when I approach their table and ask if everthing is OK to point out the offending party..Usually a semi-intoxicated male who just knew these ladies wanted his company..

 

[Tez3]

Another skill that MUST be impressed on females is to SAY SOMETHING if someone is bothering you...When I was a bouncer I got to know my female regulars, and impressed upon them that if someone is bothering them to bring it to my attention, and when I approach their table and ask if everthing is OK to point out the offending party..Usually a semi-intoxicated male who just knew these ladies wanted his company..

This goes with the way women are taught 'not to make a fuss'.

 

[Drac]

This goes with the way women are taught 'not to make a fuss'.

I had a formal complaint filed against me by the friend of a female that I was taking a report from...She was being bothered on a public bus..I asked her,"Why she didn't say anything to the driver"..Her friend answered that "They were taught to be quiet"..My response was " What kind of victims mindset is that?"...Ohhh boy, did I catch it...

 

[Tez3]

I had a formal complaint filed against me by the friend of a female that I was taking a report from...She was being bothered on a public bus..I asked her,"Why she didn't say anything to the driver"..Her friend answered that "They were taught to be quiet"..My response was " What kind of victims mindset is that?"...Ohhh boy, did I catch it...

I've seen women eat unedible meals in restuarants, be overlooked for promotions at work, put up with comments that were insulting and harrassing all because they weren't supposed to make a fuss. There's plenty who will now thank goodness but there's still a way to go.

There's still a feeling around though that if women are attacked for sexual reasons rather than robbery it's somehow their fault. this is another mindset that SD instrucutors have to deal with, that it's not your fault, you don't deserve to be attacked so you are entitled if not duty bound to fight back. You can't have it in the back of your mind that this is your fault if you are being attacked.

 

[Drac]

There's still a feeling around though that if women are attacked for sexual reasons rather than robbery it's somehow their fault. this is another mindset that SD instrucutors have to deal with, that it's not your fault, you don't deserve to be attacked so you are entitled if not duty bound to fight back. You can't have it in the back of your mind that this is your fault if you are being attacked.

Well said...Another item for would be instructors is NOT put them females with another female that is their size or smaller, especially if it is a co-ed class..I attended one where a very pretty lady asked me to be her partner for the remainder of the day, the instructors had put her with a girl that was 1/2 her size, weight and age..She wasn't learning anything..

 

[jks9199]

I had a formal complaint filed against me by the friend of a female that I was taking a report from...She was being bothered on a public bus..I asked her,"Why she didn't say anything to the driver"..Her friend answered that "They were taught to be quiet"..My response was " What kind of victims mindset is that?"...Ohhh boy, did I catch it...

I've seen women eat unedible meals in restuarants, be overlooked for promotions at work, put up with comments that were insulting and harrassing all because they weren't supposed to make a fuss. There's plenty who will now thank goodness but there's still a way to go.

There's still a feeling around though that if women are attacked for sexual reasons rather than robbery it's somehow their fault. this is another mindset that SD instrucutors have to deal with, that it's not your fault, you don't deserve to be attacked so you are entitled if not duty bound to fight back. You can't have it in the back of your mind that this is your fault if you are being attacked.

Changing mindset is one of the hardest things you can do (and it's not limited to females in today's culture here in the US). And it's one of the most important. When I teach self-defense, especially with women and kids, one of the things I work hardest on is simply being able to say NO or STOP and mean it. The coy ******** of "no means yes" needs to be done away with, so that when someone says no -- it means NO. And nothing else. And not a giggling, tentative "no", either... but an absolute NO.

Rory Miller's book Meditations on Violence has a lot of good stuff in it about the true nature of violent attacks, and how to prepare for them. One of the best, in my opinion, is the following:

Permission
This is something I give my students...​

Sometimes, I ask, "Why didn't you...?" reach for a weapon, use a preemptive strike, run, call for help...

And the student says, "I didn't know I could."

For the longest time, I assumed that meant the student had never considered it or didn't know how... it didn't occur to me that they thought it might be forbidden.

These are things that should never need to be said but still must, because there is power in the words.

• You have permission to defend yourself.
• You have permission to be rude.
• You have permission to survive, no matter what it takes.
• You have permission to act when the scary man reaches for his belt. You do not need to wait until he draws the weapon or until he points it at you, or until he hurts you. You have permission to act.
• You have permission to beat me, even if I wear a black belt.
• YOu have permission to become better than the best instructor you have ever had.
• You have permission to invent something better than I ever taught you, permission to act use it in my class, permission to use it to defeat me, and permission to teach it to your students.
• You have blanket permission to grow and live and survive and fight and run and scream and talk and play and laugh and learn and experiment. You have permission to win, and you have permission to decide what winning is. Be amazing!

-Rory​

(Miller, Rory; Meditations on Violence, page 150.)​

I've incorporated this set of permissions -- and giving them to my students -- into my own training. I encourage everyone to do so -- and to give themselves and their students the explicit permission, even the expectation, that they may do whatever it takes to survive!
​

Well said...Another item for would be instructors is NOT put them females with another female that is their size or smaller, especially if it is a co-ed class..I attended one where a very pretty lady asked me to be her partner for the remainder of the day, the instructors had put her with a girl that was 1/2 her size, weight and age..She wasn't learning anything..

For initial learning, pairing up students of similar size is good. However, especially for women's self defense instruction, students MUST try the techniques against someone bigger and stronger. They must see in the training environment that it can and does work, even against a bigger person, or they won't really trust it.​

 

[Deaf Smith]

Many schools teach them. Short courses designed to give women a small taste of SD. The material taught probably varies from inst. to inst.

So, you've been given the task of teaching a SD course for women. The people attending range in age from high school age girls to college age, from 30yo females to people in their 50's and 60's.

List at least 5 things (more can be listed if you choose ) that you would teach and why you would teach them. What types of scenarios/training tools would you use?

1. Teach them awareness. Keeping track of what is going on around them. This includes the color code system, et. al. Jeff Coopers White, Yellow, Orange, Red.

2. Expose them to spotting indicators something is wrong. The other persons demeanor, clinching fist, brushing their hair, looking around while talking, licking their lips, etc... there are many!

3. Show them how to trust their gut instincts that something is wrong and be willing to either leave or fight. Gavin's "The Gift of Fear" comes into mind as a primer on the subject.

4. Teach SD with a emphasis on low kicking, elbows, knees, eye jabs, and all manner of 'dirty fighting' like toe kicks, spitting, biting, groin grabs, ... well you get the idea.

5. Teach them to shoot! Yes shoot a gun. Shoot it well and fast at close range. Even if they don't want to use a gun, they will know what a gun can and cannot do. They will gain respect for the gun and at the same time lose their fear of guns.

Deaf

 

[Drac]

For initial learning, pairing up students of similar size is good. However, especially for women's self defense instruction, students MUST try the techniques against someone bigger and stronger. They must see in the training environment that it can and does work, even against a bigger person, or they won't really trust it.

Yes I agree....The funniest part of that training is when the Grandmaster looked across the dojang and saw me in the mount position with this pretty lady..."Draaaaaaaaacccccccccc!!! he yelled from across the room " What are you doing to that pretty girl?, he yelled?''..I explained that it would not be a little girl she'd be defending herself against, but some big drunken slob...How will she knows these techniques work if she doesn't practice???