Women's Rights

[rmcrobertson]

I'm wit' MGM.

And silly me. I thought we had a moral responsibility for the things we support as a nation, including idiocies like training the Taliban (in view of their treatment of women, which we knew about), supporting the Saudis, etc.

Among other things, looks like we'd do a helluva lot better--just practically speaking--if we actually imposed some more grounds on our foreign affairs. Because in the long run, our, "using Afghanistan as a pawn," has worked out so very, very well for us, hasn't it?

But hey, WE have no problems in the area of national attitude towards women. Why, if we did, we'd have symptomatic problems with weird stuff, like our military guards engaging in the sexual torture of prisoners.

No chance you guys will, at any point, stop these goofy stereotypes and start looking at reality, eh?

 

[Cobra]

I'm wit' MGM.

And silly me. I thought we had a moral responsibility for the things we support as a nation, including idiocies like training the Taliban (in view of their treatment of women, which we knew about), supporting the Saudis, etc.

Among other things, looks like we'd do a helluva lot better--just practically speaking--if we actually imposed some more grounds on our foreign affairs. Because in the long run, our, "using Afghanistan as a pawn," has worked out so very, very well for us, hasn't it?

But hey, WE have no problems in the area of national attitude towards women. Why, if we did, we'd have symptomatic problems with weird stuff, like our military guards engaging in the sexual torture of prisoners.

No chance you guys will, at any point, stop these goofy stereotypes and start looking at reality, eh?

Why do you nitpick? You know what we mean when we say West. When you say latino for example it means South Americans Spanish Speaking World, it could well mean Brazilian too. But you know what they are talking about. Wether you like it or not the discriminate against Arab women. What does Arab mean? It means you are from Suadi Arabia. So quite getting so upset about the so called "stereotypes".

 

[MGM]

Why do you nitpick? You know what we mean when we say West. When you say latino for example it means South Americans Spanish Speaking World, it could well mean Brazilian too.

What about Central America? How about Mexico? What about Belize and Guyana, English is the most spoken for both and in Guyana the second most spoken languages are Hindi based. How about people in the US that identify themselves as Latino?

But you know what they are talking about. Wether you like it or not the discriminate against Arab women. What does Arab mean? It means you are from Suadi Arabia. So quite getting so upset about the so called "stereotypes".

"Wether you like it or not the discriminate against Arab women."
This sentence makes no sense. Please define exactly what or who "the" is.



The actor Keanu Reeves was born in Lebanon. Is he Lebanese? Is he Arab?

The stunt man Greg Campbell was born in Saudi Arabia. According to your reasoning he is Arab, is he?

The actress Lisa Eilbacher and her sister but her name escapes me were both born in Saudi Arabia. Are they Arabs?

The problem with stereotypes is they are almost always wrong.

 

[MGM]

Most of the major civilizations (Europe, Middle East, Asia) have all had that idea. And it wasn't really chaleneged until Mary Wolfenscrat (I forgot her last name) in England started to start the idea in the mid 1700's. Basicly, Europe got the idea that "men are closer to God" and some parts in the Qu'ran say women are lower than men (I found that out recently), and Asia, well I don't even need to explain that place. The idea was universal and women even never chalenged that. The Middle East today strongly does it (especially Saudi Arabia) Does it mean women have never been in control? Now way. Many Muharajas in India were women.

Again, I don't have anything against women's rights, however, it seems strange that why women never rebelled a long time ago. It is probably because women are much more easily decieved, but that doesn't make them lower, because men have even more worse problems. If women want to gain equality in the world, they need to start bloody revolutions and stand up for themselves (like in the Middle east). Not that submissive. That is my oponion atleast. There where women protesters before, but they never got that high in power because they never protested enough like how they startred to do in the 1800's. Women didn't invent patriarchy, they never opposed it is what I am saying. Men said "We are higher." Then women right away should of said "No, we are equal."

I said before that the real protest only hapenned in the last 200 years! About the time they declared all that stuff. 250 years to be a little more exact.Think of this. Men, like from the country of Saudi Arabia, are they just going to let women have rights if they ask them? Unlike America in the 1800's and 1900's, Arabs will probably shoot those women. When rights like that are abused, there is no choice but to start a war. If US never had a war, they would of never got their independance. When the opressors are exterme, war is the only way to get freedom.

rmcrobertson, how is that wacky and dumb? You think that just because this thread is entitled "Women's Rights", that it is a thread written against women's rights. But it is NOT! Don't be so ignorant. If you can see that, then I take back what I said of you be ignorant. So, what is so wacky about talking about this issue?

It is very hard to follow any of your posts your sentences are often totally lacking form, reason and are often incomplete. A small bit of proof reading on your part before you post may help. My sentence structure and grammar tend to be horrible also, I am dyslexic so writing is difficult. But I make an attempt to be clear.
Your statements for the most part are so far fetched it is really impossible to respond to them. You seem to be lacking a great deal of basic knowledge of history of each country or culture you bring up.

If you would like to pick a country or culture to discuss women’s rights we may actually be able to have a conversation.

"Yes, I am fond of history."
"I wish I were too. I read it a little as a duty, but it tells me nothing that does not either vex or weary me. The quarrels of popes and kings, with wars or pestilences, in every page; the men all so good for nothing, and hardly any women at all -- it is very tiresome:"

by Jane Austen c1800

 

[Touch Of Death]

Exactly my point how do you define Arab?



By countries strictly located in the Arabian Peninsula Kuwait, Yemen, Oman, UAE, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

By countries that speak Arabic as there official language Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Egypt, Kuwait, Somali, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Jordan, Oman, Sudan, Morocco, UAE, Tunisia, Libya, Saudi Arabia

There were many countries that were part of the Persian Empire at its height including parts of India, Egypt and Grease. Does that make all decedents in those areas Persian? Rome once controlled England; do you think the average Londoner considers her/himself to be Italian?

Ethnicity is complicated, wide swept generalizations and stereotypes give the effect of someone that knows little and wishes to learn nothing. How about self-identification, maybe it is just best to leave people to decide for themselves what they are.


Americans used Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) to control women in the USA right through the 70’s along with forced sterilization of course that was just for the "insane" and Native Americans so the rest of the country seemed not to mind so much.



Inductively means to come to a conclusion using logical reasoning or facts.

What you said

"Also an Araab women who has not yet succom to cirumscision generaly feels dirty and out of place."

What I said

"The majority of Arab women are not exposed to the expectation that they should undergo such a thing so I doubt they are left to "feel dirty and out of place". None of the Arabic women I have known felt that way. "

Since FGM is practiced by a very small minority of Arab peoples (use any just about any definition for the term) the majority of women are not expected to under go such a procedure there for I induced that it was unlikely they felt as you suggested especially since you referred to all Arab women everywhere.




I absolutely agree that peer pressure and a sense of history play a huge role in the continuation of FGM. It is why it is so hard to stop, dozens of myths and superstitions abound in cultures that practice it. In some a women will be an outcast if she refuses or she will not be allowed to marry.

Exposure to the "West" is hardly the only reason some women may feel regret. How about death, chronic infections, infertility, increased risk of HIV infection, painful intercourse (for life), death of children during childbirth and fistulas to name a few.


Here go the mass generalizations again.

Who are they? Who is our? What way of thinking?

As far as Satan the Judaic – Christian Satan is not anything like the Islamic Satan.

On a side note, isn’t Jane a magazine for teenage girls?

First of all Jane Magazine is sent to my home for free every month due to a law suit we won against a Magazine distribution company and yes I look at the semi nude photos and read the occassional article. After all I get it for free, its part of my life now; deal with it.
I haven't generalized that the US and the west are considered infidels and even get the nickname Great Satan (great deciever) to the islamic world. I was using the term arab as I hear the news use the term arab, very broad and very general? yes. would non western people whom aren't chinese, Bushman, or Indian suffice or do I need forty different names to make you happy? how about "them". :uhyeah:
Sean

 

[rmcrobertson]

The remarkable thing about stereotypes is that people don't seem to mind them, as long as they're applied to someone else. For example, one of the interesting things about, "external," vs. "internal," martial arts, according to Donn Draeger, is that it started out as a way of defininf "non-Chinese," vs. "Chinese," arts.

Forty different names or more would be excellent. That way, we'd know what we're talking about, white man.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The remarkable thing about stereotypes is that people don't seem to mind them, as long as they're applied to someone else. For example, one of the interesting things about, "external," vs. "internal," martial arts, according to Donn Draeger, is that it started out as a way of defininf "non-Chinese," vs. "Chinese," arts.

Forty different names or more would be excellent. That way, we'd know what we're talking about, white man.

Who you callin' white man?... Oh, never mind.

 

[Cruentus]

It is very hard to follow any of your posts your sentences are often totally lacking form, reason and are often incomplete. A small bit of proof reading on your part before you post may help. My sentence structure and grammar tend to be horrible also, I am dyslexic so writing is difficult. But I make an attempt to be clear.
Your statements for the most part are so far fetched it is really impossible to respond to them. You seem to be lacking a great deal of basic knowledge of history of each country or culture you bring up.

If you would like to pick a country or culture to discuss women’s rights we may actually be able to have a conversation.

"Yes, I am fond of history."
"I wish I were too. I read it a little as a duty, but it tells me nothing that does not either vex or weary me. The quarrels of popes and kings, with wars or pestilences, in every page; the men all so good for nothing, and hardly any women at all -- it is very tiresome:"

by Jane Austen c1800

I wouldn't hammer him too badly. The problem is that "Cobra" is about 13 or 14 years old, has a tendency to get caught up and fantasy, and is trying to have a conversation with adults while posing as an adult. That's the real problem. Eh...what-R-U-Gonna DO? :idunno:

 

[Cryozombie]

The remarkable thing about stereotypes is that people don't seem to mind them, as long as they're applied to someone else. For example, one of the interesting things about, "external," vs. "internal," martial arts, according to Donn Draeger, is that it started out as a way of defininf "non-Chinese," vs. "Chinese," arts.

Forty different names or more would be excellent. That way, we'd know what we're talking about, white man.

RIIIIIIIGHT...

Heaven forbid someone would call "us" westerners... or North Americans...

I am confused tho. Just like people use the term "Asian" to describe Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc etc etc... No one seems to get upset about that, so why be so up in arms about the broad use of "Arab" or "Arabic" to describe the countries of the middle east?

 

[Touch Of Death]

RIIIIIIIGHT...

Heaven forbid someone would call "us" westerners... or North Americans...

I am confused tho. Just like people use the term "Asian" to describe Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc etc etc... No one seems to get upset about that, so why be so up in arms about the broad use of "Arab" or "Arabic" to describe the countries of the middle east?

Didn't you read the books Robert suggested? They outline those reasons perfectly, but perhaps he will enlighten us illiteratti.
Sean

 

[Cobra]

It is very hard to follow any of your posts your sentences are often totally lacking form, reason and are often incomplete. A small bit of proof reading on your part before you post may help. My sentence structure and grammar tend to be horrible also, I am dyslexic so writing is difficult. But I make an attempt to be clear.
Your statements for the most part are so far fetched it is really impossible to respond to them. You seem to be lacking a great deal of basic knowledge of history of each country or culture you bring up.

If you would like to pick a country or culture to discuss women’s rights we may actually be able to have a conversation.

"Yes, I am fond of history."
"I wish I were too. I read it a little as a duty, but it tells me nothing that does not either vex or weary me. The quarrels of popes and kings, with wars or pestilences, in every page; the men all so good for nothing, and hardly any women at all -- it is very tiresome:"

by Jane Austen c1800

I know my history, probably better than you. It is true that in the past before 1700's there were women's rights activists, but they were never organized like they were in the last 200 years.

You can't understand me? Well I apologize, I type very fast and mispell words. Surely you can still understand, can't you? I've never had a problem before with people understanding what I am saying, it doesn't take rocket science to understand either. Maybe it is your understaning skills that might need work and not my grammer skills. In anycase I can understand why nitpick my grammer, you like to nitpick about stereotypes too. When someone says south, they arn't going to mean Magastopiline, a star south of our planet, there going to mean south in our planet. South can many meanings too right?

 

[Cobra]

I wouldn't hammer him too badly. The problem is that "Cobra" is about 13 or 14 years old, has a tendency to get caught up and fantasy, and is trying to have a conversation with adults while posing as an adult. That's the real problem. Eh...what-R-U-Gonna DO? :idunno:

What is your problem. First of all you don't know my age. Second, I thought you were going to go all over where I am posting an hound me of your oponion of me? I thought you had a.......life.What do you have against me? Even MJS stopped, why don't you? I thought that was all over with? What is wrong with you? You must have a lot of enemies in your life, and keep a lot of grudges.

 

[Cruentus]

What is your problem. First of all you don't know my age. Second, I thought you were going to go all over where I am posting an hound me of your oponion of me? I thought you had a.......life.What do you have against me? Even MJS stopped, why don't you? I thought that was all over with? What is wrong with you? You must have a lot of enemies in your life, and keep a lot of grudges.

This has nothing to do with the "animal" threads, I am not chasing you. You create problems for yourself in just about every thread. I stated what I think the problem is. I don't consider you an enemy, I am just stating what I believe to be true. Can you prove me wrong?

How about this, Cobra...how old are you?

This outta get even more interesting then it already has been...

 

[Cobra]

This has nothing to do with the "animal" threads, I am not chasing you. You create problems for yourself in just about every thread. I stated what I think the problem is. I don't consider you an enemy, I am just stating what I believe to be true. Can you prove me wrong?

How about this, Cobra...how old are you?

This outta get even more interesting then it already has been...

Really, I do? Of every thread I particapated in, which ones I created so called made trouble for myself? Some trouble came from the animal threads and the groin and eyes one, but what besides that? I have written a lot of threads, and none of those other ones I have problems with yet, unless you come in. Me and MGM has a disagreement on something. How is that trouble anyways? I think it well has to do with the animal threads. I typed really fast in that post, she misunderstood me, how do you call that trouble?

My age, why do you want to know that? You assume just because I type fast and messed up on a few posts on this thread that I am some preteen? Anyway, I think that seems a little too personal question for me, but I am under 30 and that is all I'm saying.

 

[rmcrobertson]

My goodness, it'd sure be horrible if we all read and learned more.

The problem with labelling radically different people, with different languages and histories and religious beliefs, "Arabs," is that it's ridiculously inaccurate.

And LOTS of people--as well as critics--have pointed out that lumping "Asians," together is equally ridiculous.

At least "Cobra's," moving his dates back. He started with claiming that there were no women activists before 1800--we're already back to 1700, which is progress.

 

[Cobra]

My goodness, it'd sure be horrible if we all read and learned more.
At least "Cobra's," moving his dates back. He started with claiming that there were no women activists before 1800--we're already back to 1700, which is progress.

No, I said before that there was women activist before even the 1700's in one of my threads, but they weren't as organized as they were in the 1800's.

 

[Cruentus]

Really, I do? Of every thread I particapated in, which ones I created so called made trouble for myself? Some trouble came from the animal threads and the groin and eyes one, but what besides that? I have written a lot of threads, and none of those other ones I have problems with yet, unless you come in. Me and MGM has a disagreement on something. How is that trouble anyways? I think it well has to do with the animal threads. I typed really fast in that post, she misunderstood me, how do you call that trouble?

My age, why do you want to know that? You assume just because I type fast and messed up on a few posts on this thread that I am some preteen? Anyway, I think that seems a little too personal question for me, but I am under 30 and that is all I'm saying.

Alright, Cobra, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. It was a little general of me to say that in "just about every thread" you have caused yourself trouble. It sure seems that way, but I am to lazy to do a search on your name to find out. Let's just say that in more then one thread, you have caused yourself trouble.

Now, how do i know your age? Well, I am not psychic, but I did work in the school system for over 5 years. I worked with kids of every age. If I were to guess your age based on your writing samples here, I'd guess 13 or 14. This isn't an insult, as there is nothing wrong with being of a younger age. I think that you cause yourself a problem, though, when you get on forums with people like Robert (who has a PHd and teaches at a college), attempting to present yourself like an educated adult who knows everything. I am just saying that if you slowed it down a bit, you might be better off. Plus, if you admitted your age, then adults would take that into account and wouldn't drop the hammer on you so readily. Just a suggestion.

I say be a real person and fill out your profile. Also, be a humble person and listen more then you speak. You'll save yourself a lot of embarassment. Take it from me...I have embarrassed myself on more then one occassion by speaking before listening.

Anyways, I apologize for bringing it up. Sorry, dude... I will admit that was a little D**kheadish of me to do so, so I'll drop the subject if you will.

PAUL

P.S. I also can recognize younger people because I have the sense of humor of a 5 year old. If you say "Doodie" I'll probably laugh. But that is a different conversation. :roflmao:

 

[Cryozombie]

The problem with labelling radically different people, with different languages and histories and religious beliefs, "Arabs," is that it's ridiculously inaccurate.

By that same argument, Cannot the same be said about calling us "Americans"

Many "Americans" speak spanish, polish, etc... Come from varied histories, and many many religious beliefs... So by your argument Lumping us all as "Westerners" or "Americans" is wrong.

From this day forward I demand all reference to me be done as "citizen of Irish-german immagrant decent living in the United states of america, in the state of Illinios."

Nah, that seems equally ridiculous. Call me westerner.

 

[Cobra]

Alright, Cobra, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. It was a little general of me to say that in "just about every thread" you have caused yourself trouble. It sure seems that way, but I am to lazy to do a search on your name to find out. Let's just say that in more then one thread, you have caused yourself trouble.

Now, how do i know your age? Well, I am not psychic, but I did work in the school system for over 5 years. I worked with kids of every age. If I were to guess your age based on your writing samples here, I'd guess 13 or 14. This isn't an insult, as there is nothing wrong with being of a younger age. I think that you cause yourself a problem, though, when you get on forums with people like Robert (who has a PHd and teaches at a college), attempting to present yourself like an educated adult who knows everything. I am just saying that if you slowed it down a bit, you might be better off. Plus, if you admitted your age, then adults would take that into account and wouldn't drop the hammer on you so readily. Just a suggestion.

I say be a real person and fill out your profile. Also, be a humble person and listen more then you speak. You'll save yourself a lot of embarassment. Take it from me...I have embarrassed myself on more then one occassion by speaking before listening.

Anyways, I apologize for bringing it up. Sorry, dude... I will admit that was a little D**kheadish of me to do so, so I'll drop the subject if you will.

PAUL

P.S. I also can recognize younger people because I have the sense of humor of a 5 year old. If you say "Doodie" I'll probably laugh. But that is a different conversation. :roflmao:

The only trouble I have really had on these forums, was with the animal forums. No other. MGM couldn't understand my writing, that is it. I type fast, that is the reason.

I think it is a little personal for you to ask, but make sure you don't really think it, my real age is 17. You may thinking, "Oh he has bad grammer," but I type really fast like I said before. I may forget to add re to there instead making the, it happens. You have never made typos? But I started this forum for the reason of seeing what other people had to say. I might have a different view, so there is going to be disagreements or arguments, but that does not mean i created trouble for myself.

 

[someguy]

All of us have been misuderstood at some point I'm sure. It happens.
I have it happen more than some people. Somedays I son't make much sense myself but thats life. If a person says what I said doesn't make much sense I try to clarify myself. I'm sure some of my points are taken in a differnt manner than I intended.
If this doesn't make much sense its probably because I have been helping my brother write a video game. I study history not Computer Science so my brain < dirt right now.