OP
OP
Not being confrontational with this Bob, just furthering a conversation:
But I find it a bit conflicting that on one thread you are advocating accepting the risk of physical harm to fight for your rights but on another you are advocating to "not get involved" in helping a cop getting beat up because of the risk of physical harm.
I think that perhaps you are just looking to debate some reasonable issues, but it seems either contradictory or a tad "anti".
Just lobbing the conversation ball back to your side of the net.
Gonna wander a bit here. Apologies.
It's a matter of choosing ones battles based on understanding the full situation and possible outcomes. A former member of this site once asked me if a particular issue was "a hill worth dying on". Helping a cop, or anyone for that matter who is in danger is a different "hill" as it were than defending ones rights.
I have a right to privacy. Except.....and there's a whole list where that right is trumped. But I still have a right to privacy.
I have a right not to be unreasonably detained. Except....and there's a whole list where a cop can detain me.
And so on.
Why, when the law already states a set number of situations where I have to obey a LEO, should I give them more? In all bluntness, it would assist LEO greatly if we required everyone to have their ID tattooed on their foreheads, but that's unlikely to happen this year.
Cops enjoy special privileges in order to do their thankless and dangerous jobs efficiently. I'm happy to allow you that, once I better understand it. That doesn't give you unlimited power though, nor make you above me. Most cops know this, that they are working for the common good of the people they serve. A few like the one in the OP, and that idiot in Akron OH, think a uniform and a badge means you are entitled to that free coffee, and that the public should step aside. A bully in uniform is just that, a bully.
Look at ID's. You stop me and demand my ID. Now, I'm just walking down the street here, not operating a vehicle. Maybe I'm sitting on my porch and you pull up and demand my ID. I don't have it. Why should I? I'm on my property. I'm unaware of any law in any community that says I need ID on my own porch. Of course, I can't prove it, my ID is in the house. You won't let me go get it. So I have to go down to the station with you, call someone, have them take time to bring it down, so I can go back to the home you took me from. Why? Because I didn't have my "papers" yet I am under no requirement to have them. I broke no law, but, you (generic you) make up one. Or you cite an existing one. I'm not charged, but I sure am intimidated. Now, If I had ID and showed it to you, we're done in 5 minutes. But, I'm not required to have it, and there's no legal reason to show it (in most cases), so why should I have it? Again, hours wasted, I'm inconvenienced, and possibly intimidated.
Is that the goal of a cop? To intimidate honest law abiding citizens? To waste my time and steal hours of my life so that you can look busy?
Mind you, I'm typing this conversationally, not in an enraged state. I'm clarifying here so that there's no misunderstanding of any anger or malice intended here.
This woman here dared to ask a cop why he was issuing an unlawful order.
She was arrested, lost 9 hours of her life, and had to deal with 3 court appearances.
Only to have the charges tossed.
How much money did that cost her? The Taxpayers of Atlanta?
Because this cop thought he was above the law.
If I'm standing on a corner, I want to know 2 things.
1 that I'm safe.
2 that any cop I encounter will be polite and professional, and not a jerk.
99.9% of the cops I've dealt with have been that. Polite and professional.
I've only encountered 1 cop who lied under oath. (I'm sorry, but you do not calibrate those radars every morning, nor are your in car speedometers calibrated daily.)
Now, I'm not advocating digging in ones heels, and arguing and causing a huge blow up. I'm saying you choose your battles. Sometimes, it's better to give up ground.
I have a lot more respect for the cops who know the law, and enforce it, and don't have to make up stuff to push their "authority" around. I'm polite and professional in my direct dealings with cops. I'll sir you to death. But I have nothing but contempt for the bully cops.
Put another way, just because it's convenient, doesn't make it right.
Aren't cops supposed to protect our rights, not violate them?
Now, on the loitering aspect, teens hang out in store doorways all around me. Hard to shag their asses out, we've had store owners threatened when they tried. Cops come, kids move, later on windows get broken. That's different though from a couple of old ladies on a sidewalk. Unless one of them is Grandma Gracie.
Now, I do realize I'm likely annoying some with this. I'm sorry. But I've learned a lot from these in-depth exchanges, and hope others have too, on both sides of the 'blue line' as it were. If I have a key purpose for these debates, it's to expand on our understanding of rights, laws, etc. and improve our in person interactions, and help restore public trust in law enforcement. Something sadly lacking in some areas, both by fault and no fault of the local cops.
:asian:
) that if you yell back at the jerk on the street, that maybe he'll get pissed and come after you, just like if you yell at the cop, run, fight, whatever, that you may get in more hot water, than you initially would have, were you to just cooperate in the first place. 
)
