barriecusvein
Green Belt
ed-swckf said:
really? ive never seen it, my ignorance showing through i guess.
Wing Chun's basic stance
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really? ive never seen it, my ignorance showing through i guess.
monji112000
Green Belt
i have never seen it. I know about it from word of mouth. Its very hard to find People who are Diciples of Ip man or someone at that level. Most of the people who are very good at WC are not very popular, have small schools, and aren't famouse.
Its really silly for demos becouse only the person pushing really knows if its fake or not.
Its really silly for demos becouse only the person pushing really knows if its fake or not.
Si-Je
Master Black Belt
Quote: fightingfat-The short distance punch is delivered in a way that it folds and drops an opponent where they stand, not send them flying.
When you punch your utilize your entire body to reinforce the punch. To generate the most power you punch with your spine so to speak. Flexing the spine forward in unison with the arm and fist creates more power than would be possible for such a short distance or for a smaller person to generate. This is something Im just now learning about in WC. Its a bit difficult for me to explain, its easier to demonstrate.
Wing Chun punching forward force can be used to send the opponent flying back by keeping the wrist straight on impact.
If you wish to drop an opponent where they stand, you flex the wrist up at the point of impact to get more penetration in the punch.
The scale that the Sigung is standing on is underneath a lose roll of quarters. Which he is balancing on with one foot while being pushed by the larger man. I have no earthly idea how he pulls that one off, and am pretty amazed! As I understand it, he was Jim Fungs teacher. Theres more videos of him that are really great to watch (although everything he says has to be translated) I think their still on the site.
There is much power as well as balance within the basic stance. Im very petite and Ive noticed that if my stance is not good, my power in striking, forward force, and strength and structure in deflection is useless against a stronger attacker. Basics are the key to mastery of Wing Chun.
When you punch your utilize your entire body to reinforce the punch. To generate the most power you punch with your spine so to speak. Flexing the spine forward in unison with the arm and fist creates more power than would be possible for such a short distance or for a smaller person to generate. This is something Im just now learning about in WC. Its a bit difficult for me to explain, its easier to demonstrate.
Wing Chun punching forward force can be used to send the opponent flying back by keeping the wrist straight on impact.
If you wish to drop an opponent where they stand, you flex the wrist up at the point of impact to get more penetration in the punch.
The scale that the Sigung is standing on is underneath a lose roll of quarters. Which he is balancing on with one foot while being pushed by the larger man. I have no earthly idea how he pulls that one off, and am pretty amazed! As I understand it, he was Jim Fungs teacher. Theres more videos of him that are really great to watch (although everything he says has to be translated) I think their still on the site.
There is much power as well as balance within the basic stance. Im very petite and Ive noticed that if my stance is not good, my power in striking, forward force, and strength and structure in deflection is useless against a stronger attacker. Basics are the key to mastery of Wing Chun.
Si-Je
Master Black Belt
That's true. We've had a hard time demoing because of wing chun's relaxed and lose almost lazy appearance to the untrained eye. People cannot "see" the power behind the punching like other external arts where they Kai and tense their muscles as they strike. It's fast, so people assume theirs no power. Like the one inch punch, it's small movement, and people think it's fake.
The popularity of WC in america is pretty nil, because it takes a bit longer to become effective. And the concepts and principles require that one change the way they look at things, not just fighting, but to take another approach to life as well. They mistake the principles for philosophy and therefore think the art is just that, philosophy and theory.
storkandrodent
White Belt
Gucci. Liked the thing at the end. I've seen it done on Mind Body and Kick *** Moves, but never with a guy standing on a cushion, or whatever that was. Good stuff.
Sigung Chu was standing on a mahjong piece placed on top of a set of scales. As his opponent pushed harder, his weight on the scales increased. This shows how you can absorb force into your own stance. This may also be applied in many other positions in Wing Chun, such as the bong sao. If someone throws a committed strike at you and you deflect it with a bong sao, you can absorb their weight into your own stance and they become lighter as they end up leaning on you. You can try this out by standing on a set of bathroom scales and then leaning on a bench. You get lighter.
As for the one inch punch, Sifu Fung has always stated that this is not how he punches in a real fight. The one inch punch is pulled so that the force does not travel through the phone book. The force explodes in the phone book and the phone book sends the resisting person backwards. Many students and visitors to Sifu Fung's school have asked him to demonstrate it on them, and they have felt the same.
If Sifu Fung were to focus his force into the person, they would not fly backwards. Instead it would do immense internal damage to them and severely injure them, which would be completely unsuitable for a demonstration.
Si-Je
Master Black Belt
We practice the basic stance with a person on each leg pulling in the opposite direction. Having someone try to lift you up while in stance and when appliying pressure while keeping your structure. These drills help develop that ability to stand firm in stance while someone is pushing you.
As for the one inch punch. Depending on where you direct your force in punching determines how the opponent is affected. You can use it to "drop" the opponent, or throw them back. It just depends on how you direct your energy. For Demo Sifu Fung chose to throw his partner back, probably because it shows the power of the punch more in a demo than to just crumple him to the floor. (and you want your student to come to class the next day. lol!)
These things are better understood when felt and experienced than watched on video or at a demo. But overall, I like the demo very much.
As for the one inch punch. Depending on where you direct your force in punching determines how the opponent is affected. You can use it to "drop" the opponent, or throw them back. It just depends on how you direct your energy. For Demo Sifu Fung chose to throw his partner back, probably because it shows the power of the punch more in a demo than to just crumple him to the floor. (and you want your student to come to class the next day. lol!)
These things are better understood when felt and experienced than watched on video or at a demo. But overall, I like the demo very much.
Si-Je seems to be able to describe wing chun very well. I'm not a sifu or anything other then a student but I already am able to feel the energy transfer that starts at the ground and works it way up. I don't know it well enough the place it behind a 1 inch punch. However I have utilized it while hammer punching, performing overly aggressive poks and double punches. Just last week my Sifu demonstrated this on me with a very slight palm to the right side of my chest. He allowed me to build my structure first and prepare for the blow. When he released it the first thing I noticed was it felt like a very large circle was tingling on my back and then very slowly I uncontrollably slid back. His movement was so slight but had a great effect on my center. I didn't feel a strike of any sort and it didn't really hurt either. I just noticed the feeling in my back which was like an explosion that started in the center of his targeted area and then worked its way outward to make the larger circle I described. It pretty much comes down to how much torque you create at the feet and the amount of energy lost at each joint in the transition. The better you get in form, the more efficient your joints become at transferring this energy until one day you can finally transfer all that energy thats created into one spot with very minimal loss. That's where being relaxed comes in. If you end up using the wrong muscles or tensing in the process, energy gets transferred in the wrong direction. The energy is like electricity in that it looks for the path of least resistance. When you use your shoulder or tilt your fist in the wrong direction, it is very similar to creating a short in that area.
The demo on the scale was to measure the total weight being directed down. Notice how the scale didn't slide back. It's amazing and I have to agree and say that demo was pretty sick. It's how the little people take on the big guys.
CheukMo
Orange Belt
The reason it's not very popular in the U.S. is besides your points, taking longer to learn and grasping concepts, is there is no way of "showing" that you have the skill without using it; ie there are no red belts or brown belts or black belts. There are sifu and students.
I don't have any power like that yet, or rather I don't know how to harness and use it. I have felt it and seen it in practice and in person by Sifu Kenneth Chung. It is truly amazing.
I don't think WC takes longer to learn then other arts, this may just be my opinion but I think it goes beyond that. It takes much longer to make black belt or 10th level practitioner(which ever is equivalent to blackbelt) in WT then it does to learn all the forms in wing chun, chi sao, and dummy forms. It was my understanding that it was created to be taught in a faster manner then other arts.
I do agree with you on the belt part though. A lot of people need them for other reasons then just to hold up their pants. People take up other MAs so that they can get some discipline, build confidence, find center and become more physically able comparative to the rest of the world. The effect of the belt is that it not only displays the level of expertise of the practitioner but it also supplies a back bone of achievement, motivates the student to excel in skill, and sets a level of fairness amongst the students. Some people need that and I believe those to be more related to life lessons rather than something you learn at a dojo or kwoon. But that's how it is.
CheukMo
Orange Belt
I studied TaeKwonDo and got my yellow belt in about six weeks, but it took a bit longer to go to green stripe and then green belt. When I studied WC I only got to Yi Ji Kim Yeung Ma and the centerline punch in three months. To me it seemed that the WC group I studied with wanted to make sure that I (and other students) to have a very firm base before moving on.
CheukMo
Orange Belt
WC, Leung Sheung-Ken Chung lineage.
bcbernam777
Brown Belt
Without a proper root you cannot effectivly stop the energy internally. Whilst I agree they are seperate, they are however interdependant, to be truelly effective they rely on one another to do so.
I believe you should work your upper and lower body together at all times. You wouldnt remove the turret portion of a tank, just because you're only practicing driving manuevers. Or vice versa, you wouldn't remove a tanks tracks because you're only going to be shooting for the day.
And when someone is grappling you and pinning down your arms or your legs? Sometimes you need to be able to work the upper and lower body as seperate entities.
Also, many movements in wing chun where upper and lower body move together are easy to read.
Fighting on the ground in WC is the same as if you we're standing up. Just sideways. It is much harder to use the concept of leverage vs. strength while on the ground which puts us at a disadvantage but all the strikes come from the center which shouldn't really change the amount of power that we deliver in the strike. The opponent on the other hand will have to resort to changing his punching style because he's used to a much wider swing and that's difficult when your shoulder is planted to the ground.
I do actually agree with you about separating the upper and lower half....from time to time. I think you should work it together at times and individually at others. It really depends on what the situation calls for.
I think when done properly WC is difficult to read because our shoulders stay square and our punches come from the center. Our close quarter combat style makes it very hard for an opponent to see whats going on down stairs
Remember as well that you have a floor behind you and that the direction of gravity has changed!!
I know a lot of wing chunners make the mistake of trying to grapple using wing chun! Rather than learn a grappling art.
But you are right with using legs sometimes and arms other times
I know a lot of wing chunners make the mistake of trying to grapple using wing chun! Rather than learn a grappling art.
But you are right with using legs sometimes and arms other times
